fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1941 ]

[ SECRET POST #1941 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1941 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Carnivale]

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02.

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03.

[Cabin Pressure]

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04.

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05.

[Fallout New Vegas]

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06.

[My Neighbor Totoro]

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07.

[Kuroshitsuji]

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08.

[The Devin Townsend Project]

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09.

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10.

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11.

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12.

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13.

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14.

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15.

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16.

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17.

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18.

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19.

[Glee]

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20.

[Super Meat Boy and The Binding of Isaac]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #277.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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20. http://i.imgur.com/Ak96M.jpg
[Super Meat Boy and The Binding of Isaac]

SMB (The one with the Meat, the Bandage and the pro life's worst nightmare) is mysoginstic? I thought it just causes total rage, twicthiness and a right thumb that feels like it's constantly on fire.

Maybe he didn't comment on it because he doesn't see it as misogynistic? I know I'm certainly failing to understand why you think they are, and I'm a girl.

....I think you might be reading into those a little too much. SMB and the Binding of Isaac aren't really misogynistic AFAIK. Are you really going to waste your time complaining about archetypal price rescues the princess and not something a little more pressing in gaming culture like cyberbullying? Really weird prioritizing here.

hey, it is definitely not the biggest issue and it's totally cool if people like the trope itself, but the amount of "prince rescues the princess" out there (and the almost total lack of it in any other gender combination) actually is kind of sexist. not my crusade, but if it's something that really bothers OP, nothing wrong with that.

also cyberbullying is more a problem in some parts of gaming culture than others. if you're not the type to do multiplayer online stuff, and you're not really in any position to do anything about the problem where it does exist, then it makes a lot more sense to be upset about story elements than a problem in some opposite corner of gaming that you can't do anything about.

it's only sexist if the reason she needs saving is sexist. shocking, i know, but sometimes a person who happens to be female benefits from the help of another who happens to be male.

I think I just explained it wrong or something, but I sort of agree?

on the level of the individual story, it's not sexist if the reason she needs saving isn't sexist. not sure how I feel about girls being a quest object, but it's probably not that bad on the individual level I guess.

in the cultural big picture, it kind of is sexist. this is not to criticize any particular "woman happens to need help, man happens to help her" story, but just look at how much that trope pops up, how many female characters have that role as a huge part of their purpose in the story, and how common is it for a woman to be the protagonist while a guy's in the "gets saved" role (or for both characters to be the same gender), etc.

if you're taking "sexist" to mean "this is a thing that is not okay and that people should stop doing altogether and NO ONE CAN LIKE THIS OR THEY'RE BAD", no, it isn't that. there's an imbalance though and it's interesting to look at it and try to understand it?

This!

Yep. It's the whole red curtains versus blue curtains issue. No individual case of blue curtains is -ist in and of itself, but you are allowed to point out/ask why all (or the overwhelming majority) of the curtains are blue.

(no subject)

drunken-clowns.livejournal.com - 2012-04-27 15:53 (UTC) - Expand

*how uncommon it is

And it's actually not relevant that the main characters of SMB are male or female. It was a choice to make the girl (once again) helpless. Actually, it didn't even need to be a significant other. Could have been a brother or something.

Why can't the OP be concerned about more than one issue at a time? I don't get why all other qualms with games have to be put on hold because there is one particular issue that is currently a hot-button topic.

I wouldn't say it is a waste to point out what the OP perceives as subtle misogyny, especially considering a lot of people replying are saying that they didn't notice it. This isn't the first time that the people involved in the Super Meat Boy team have put out games that have misogynistic content (don't forget about the game where you're a disembodied penis attacking a monstrous vagina).

However, after hearing the designer talk in Indie Game: the Movie about Bandage Girl and what she means to Super Meat Boy, I have a little more sympathy that she represents something pretty specific to the designer more than just a goal-object to be rescued. To paraphrase, he mentions that she's the protection that Meat Boy literally needs. It's a little better than just "do work, get girl", but yet again it erases any female perspective - she's just there for him.

Why can't you be concerned by an issue if one worse exists? There always something worse, but it doesn't mean the first issue magically disappear because of that... I could make a million analogies...

Okay, just gonna put this out there. I haven't played the other, but I can confirm that the Binding of Isaac is filled to the brim with gross, offensive material that is designed to shock and horrify. There's plenty to be offended about, and the game seems designed specifically for that purpose. I can't fathom how you're focusing on that particular aspect, which I cannot even think of examples of happening in game, and not all of the other massively offensive and disturbing things in the game.

I imagine your need (heee) with SMS is the damsel in distress plot, but what's the problem with BOI? The fact that the villain is a monstrous mother figure, maybe? Or something to do with Isaac's implied gender issues?

I have to admit, I don't get this either, and I've clocked 120+ hours on TBOI. Classism, mental illness, religious insensitivity, sure, I could understand complaints about those... but misogyny?

The thing about indie games is that they're made by just a few people for a very specific audience usually. They don't have to be general interest, and they don't want to. They're pretty much made for whatever the developer thinks of as "people like me" and if the developer's not the type to think about sexism, there's nobody around to say "hey maybe you're alienating a lot of your audience".

On the plus side, that means that developers who are more feminist-inclined get to make games that have female main characters or even have a message about sexism. So I guess just don't dismiss indie games as a whole? The individualism? is that the right word? of it means it's just going to be a really mixed bag.

As for your boyfriend, from what I've seen of SMB and Isaac, the sexism isn't really stuff that you'd pick up without any real knowledge of feminism? Like it's stuff that's a problem because it happens all the time (like with the girl as rescue object stuff) not because it's awful if it happens just once. It might not be as much of a thing to him, if gender roles aren't a thing he thinks about a lot. Instead of complaining to FS about it, why not just ask him to sit down and hear you out? Don't be a dick about the things he likes, and don't yell at him, but you seem really bothered and this comm doesn't seem like where you really need to air your grievances.

This entire comment. Made of win.

One of the creators acted pretty immature in response to critique, that's reason enough for me to avoid it.

Source?

Sadly it was a personally uploaded Youtube video response to written critique on an Indie game forum, stating that people who don't develop games shouldn't be allowed to critique his. Finding the forums is sadly becoming a daunting task. It was likely handled by PR, but it's part of the reputation mentioned in this article:

http://www.1up.com/news/op-ed-gamers-draw-line-creator_2

He also donated free copies of the game to a charity to give away during an event. So yeah, everyone's got their good side and their bad side.

I don't know, in this day and age I don't see donation as proof of a good character, more as shorthand for "promotion", but that may just be me.

(Btw. I don't know anything about the game or the creator so no bias, yo.)

Talk to your boyfriend about it. He may be more receptive to feminist issues than you think, and at the very least being able to voice why you find these things problematic might make you feel better.

Clearly you've never attempted to play SMB. That game IS hard as rocks. Give it a try and you try not talking about anything else but how difficult it is and rage quit.

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