[ SECRET POST #1946 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1946 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 092 secrets from Secret Submission Post #278.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Ohhhhhh...

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

THAT'S SanSan? Really? That ugly mean guy and that pretty little thing?

Haha! Oh fandom, never change.

[(Anonymous)]

You've never heard of Beauty and the Beast?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, add some pedophilia and more abuse to it and it becomes even sexier!

[(Anonymous)]

If Sandor is a pedophile then so are Tyrion, Jorah and numerous other characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, and if people ship any of them with children and post about it to FS, that will be noted in the comments as well. Did you have an actual point?

[(Anonymous)]

So you agree that all the characters who are attracted to or married to underage characters are pedophiles? Or hundreds of medieval marriages given what society used to view as adulthood back then? Girls were married as early as twelve in some cases.

Funny how you neglected to respond to the Jorah bit down below. Are you going to tell childlngs that she supports pedophilia? Whenever there's a Dany/anyone ship post, are you going to complain about pedophilia given that Dany is 13 years old in the books?

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention as early in the 1800s it was not unheard of for 13 year old girls to marry older men just because of the life expectancy rate. Obviously such actions wouldn't be condoned *today* but I'm not going to whine that Edgar Allan Poe is an evil pervert because he married his 13 year old cousin because society was different back then.

Short of the character being a sexual sadist like Ramsay or a psychopath like Gregor or Joffrey, I'm not going to judge the characters in ASOIAF by today's societal standards. Sandor clearly has a lot of issues but his attraction to Sansa is not abhorrent in the context of the series.

But whatever. All the people who matter in my eyes are at least sympathetic to Sandor and Sansa if not outright shippers (hi, Sophie!) so I could give a flying fuck what others think.

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

That is just... not true re: the marriage stuff. I mean, first of all ASOIAF is set in a pseudo-medieval world not the 1800s, so I'm not sure why that's relevant. And even if it were relevant, it's not true. (Also, people DO talk about how Poe was a creeper for marrying his 13 year old cousin because HE WAS. and he was even by his society's standards.) But even in the middle ages, it was not common for young teens to be married and sexually active.

I'm too lazy to type up an explanation, so I'll just link you to one that will be better than anything I could write: http://headtrip-honey-asoiaf.tumblr.com/post/21846713500/a-small-comment-on-shipping-tw-rape

[visp.livejournal.com]

Considering that Sansa was 11 when Sandor started taking an interest in her... he's kinda a pedo even by Westeros standards.

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

I am pretty sure that SanSan is supposed to be an SUBVERSION of that trope.

(lol edited because I said inversion instead of subversion.)

[(Anonymous)]

I think if it's subverting anything it's Sansa's idealized view of knights and chivalry--how the people who helped her were the drunken disfigured guy and the hideous dwarf, while the charming prince and beautiful queen only sought to torture her and the other knights beat her at Joffrey's whim.

In terms of what it's supposed to be, GRRM, Benioff, Rory and Sophie have all viewed Sandor and his relationship with Sansa in a sympathetic light.

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

Eh.... I think that is one of the subversions going on here. But it's not the only one. I think the idea of the beast's love for the beauty ~healing~ the beast is being subverted because Sandor is just as fucked up as ever after everything with Sansa. He's still a drunk brute.

[headtriphoney.livejournal.com]

1. I agree that SanSan is a subversion
2. I disagree that Sandor hasn't changed at all. We don't know for *sure* but I suspect that he's doing a lot of healing and personal introspection on the Quiet Isle. I think his interactions with Sansa and Arya affected him deeply and made him question his entire life. The Hound is dead, after all, and Sandor Clegane is at peace.

It's an homage to Beauty and the Beast, but instead of the Beast magically changing because of the love of Beauty, the Beast (this is all inference on my part, stating right up front) changes because his interactions with the Beauty make him realize he's a total shit. (Speaking as someone who adores Sandor...lbr, he's a shit.)

Just my two cents anyway. And, uh, thanks for linking me? :)

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

Re: #2, I agree that he's probably doing a lot of healing and introspection on the Quiet Isle. I wasn't really cklear in my initial comment, but my point was that it's not the love of Sansa that magically heals him. He's still a pretty gross person after he meets her and after he leaves King's Landing. He's doing his healing on his own.

[headtriphoney.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly - I completely agree. And honestly, I'd hate it if it were otherwise.

Dude gotta work out his own issues.

[sara-rojo.livejournal.com]

I actually think meeting Arya changed him a lot more than meeting Sansa. He identifies Arya and sees himself in her. It's after meeting her that he changes, assuming he is the man on the Quiet Isle. Personally, I'm more intrigued by his reunion with assasin-Arya than with same ol' Sansa.

[headtriphoney.livejournal.com]

I think it was both. Sansa held up a mirror to who he was, what he'd become (almsot a monster like Gregor, despite the white cloak). He felt guilty for not being able to protect her, for "standing there in [his] white cloak while [he] watched them beat her".

Arya, I think, reminded him of where he came from. She's headed down the same path he already trod. They both suffered severe trauma in their youth, and he saw the anger and the hate building in her.

So it's a bit of both.

And I don't see Sansa as being the "same ol'" girl. I'd be interested in an Arya reunion, but I don't see it happening. I think their arc is finished.

[sara-rojo.livejournal.com]

But there is no "despite the white cloak". He doesn't believe in the white cloak or anything it "means". It's true she made him feel things, but it wasn't her actions, it was her being there, her situation. Whereas with Arya, it truly was her actions and experiences as well as her situation, that made him think.

The curious thing is that the Hound's arc is the one that looks finished. Both sisters are still out there and very much in the game, but the Hound is kinda removed and sans POV around; his situation is one of contemplation but we'll never know his inner thoughts first hand. It's not unthinkable that he could come back, but it'd be a bit forced. and besides, Martin, get rid of some characters please this is starting to get out of hand

[(Anonymous)]

George has hinted that Sandor will be back.

[sara-rojo.livejournal.com]

He also said we'd only have three more POVs in DwD, and...yeah. I am in love with ASOIAF, but I think it's getting out of his hands.

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

No no, it's cool, I get it. It's just there have been these sansan secrets all with pictures of the pretty sansa, and I just didn't get who the other san was.

Just... struck me as funny.

[(Anonymous)]

I almost always ship the mean characters with the sweet ones. I regret nothing.

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

Of course, of course, no problem. I had just seen these SanSan secrets coming upo here, but they all had Sansa pic.

I didn't connect the other San to The Hound - it just struck me as funny for a while.