[ SECRET POST #1950 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1950 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 122 secrets from Secret Submission Post #279.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 2 - spambots ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

In regards to her abandoning Tom-Tom, I thought her motivations were pretty clear. Tom-Tom was happy with the Gaang. She knew they wouldn't do him any harm. And she knew Azula was trying to test her loyalty by springing that on her. Besides, she didn't seem to hold a personal attachment to any of her family members.

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I heard that one and it does make sense. I personally just feel that we literally get no insight whatsoever into her thoughts during that situation, so both charitable and less charitable interpretations of her behavior fit to explain what happened.

Ergo we have the situation where people who like Mai will mostly choose charitable ones and people who don't will choose the uncharitable ones without anyone ever being wrong about it since we have no word of god to settle it, let alone enough evidence to decisively settle which interpretation is right.

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

I see what you mean. I do wish we'd gotten more of an insight on Mai. The Beach was the only ep that gave us some of her POV.

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

I agree. To be honest, when Bryan and Mike first announced that season 3 would have a lot more Mai and Ty Lee I was excited, but then later disappointed because it didn't feel like that much.

Mai telling her backstory feels overall like a squandered opportunity, starting with the fact that it was "told" rather than "shown". But then, I suspect that Mike and Bryan never anticipated that some people would get a non-sympathetic interpretation out of what she said (spoiled/selfish/ungrateful brat who does not want to obey her parents!).

The more stories and debates I read about Mai, the more I think that there was so much potential to her character, but the show barely scratched the surface.

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

I only got into the show after all of the seasons had aired, but had I been into it then, I probably would've been disappointed as well. I think both Mai and Ty Lee had strong potential that was wasted. Most of Mai's screentime revolved around Zuko and Ty Lee was used as comic relief.

I agree. Looking back on Return to Omashu, I can sort of see her mother stifling her, but it really wasn't enough to count as legitimate development. I think the fandom's interpretations of the show in general came as a surprise to Mike and Bryan. I can see why they're staying closer to the fandom this time around (only with poorer results, but I digress).

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Well, to be fair, in season 2, Mai did stand on her own, but back then, she was mostly defined by being Azula's sarcastic, bored, knife-wielding henchwoman. Which is a colorful description, but not one that equals character depth.
But yeah, in season 3, she was indeed defined by being Zuko's girlfriend.

Yeah, you mean that one line where her mom tells her to be happy because they're gonna be treated like royalty, right? I agree that it was too little to say that it really fleshed out her family situation enough.

There is quite a bit of evidence that Mike and Bryan were completely blind-sided by how fandom reacted to various things in the show. I suppose they did learn a lesson from it, and are pretty savvy now, but yeah, not everyone thinks that this was for the better. (I personally love Korra, but at the same time I have to sort out my thoughts on a lot of things in it, so not gonna debate its good and bad points.)

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

True. I more meant that her only screentime that allowed development was with Zuko. It was nice that she wasn't defined by him in S2, but she was pretty much a one-note character then.

Yeah, that was the line I was referring to. It was more of a hint than Ty Lee's backstory ever got, but still not much.

I think it would've been good for Mike and Bryan to have been aware of the fandom, so that maybe they could've seen the Mai hate and put more effort into developing her as an individual, but I wouldn't have wanted them to completely mold the show to fit the fandom's wishes (otherwise Mai would've been murdered and never mentioned again).

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

That's the problem in a nutshell, yes.

Well, if there's one thing that I don't believe that Mike and Bryan will ever cater to, then that's killing off a female character solely because fandom hates her. Other than that, it would have been indeed very good if they had more foresight about how Mai's character would be received in fandom. I have no illusions about any portrayal making her a hate-free character, but I think the valid criticism I mentioned could have been dodged.

Though the problem might have also been that multiple people were writing the individual episodes, and that there was some meddling from Nick's side, so maybe that negatively influenced what was ultimately done with Mai, too.
Sigh, guess we'll never know.

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

I agree. I think Mike and Bryan are obviously willing to tweak things a bit in order to tease the fanbase, but I don't think they'd ever go that far. The fandom just seems difficult to filter through. So much of it was "Mai needs to die a fiery death" that it seems like it would've been hard for them to find the constructive criticism.

That's also a good point. At least we'll always have fanfic to give Mai the depth she deserves.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't have wanted them to completely mold the show to fit the fandom's wishes (otherwise Mai would've been murdered and never mentioned again).

I'd disagree with that. She was an awesome henchmen, and I don't think anyone had much hate for her until she move from being a tertiary character to a secondary character. She just didn't have enough personality to be second tier.

[(Anonymous)]

She just didn't have enough personality to be second tier.

Let's face it, if Mai were a man she would have been higher up on the ladder. It wasn't that she had no personality, it was that her personality is only appreciated in men.

[(Anonymous)]

I hated Zuko when he was moping too (e.g. the entire first half of season 3) and he was probably my favorite character in the whole thing, and I loved Mai in Season 2.

Sorry to burst your bubble. I just don't go for the blah-characters as anything beyond side characters. I have a lot of issues with the angsty final fantasy characters too, like Squall from FF8 or even Cloud from what I've played of FF7. If you have other characters that you think are male Mai's let me know and I can tell you if I like them or not.

[(Anonymous)]

OH, PS, I liked Daria too, but not main-character Mai. I just felt like you weren't really supposed to be emotional invested in Daria though.

[(Anonymous)]

And let's also face it: There are characteristics we like in men but hate in women and vice versa. That's just the way it is. I, e.g., like girly girls, but not girly guys. I usually favor manly guys over manly girls.

Humans tend to like different behavioral patterns for different genders, so I don't really see where people are going with the "YOU'D LIKE HER IF SHE WAS A GUY!!"-thing.

Maybe. Maybe I'd also like George Bush if he behaved like a teenager. Or if he were a woman. But he isn't, so exactly why does that matter ._.

[checkerblob.livejournal.com]

i've always felt that that was how most people thought, and I....don't. The traits I value, I tend to value in both genders, which often leads to me apparently being a failface at "historical context matters" arguments, because if a girl is being rashly violent and bro-like, I'm going to be as mildly annoyed with her as I would be with a boy; and if a guy was shallow and obsessed with fashion, I'd be as mildly annoyed with him as I would be with a girl. And obviously, that's my personal issue and I know that having characters that break gender norms is important.

But the traits I am generally attracted to (not just crush-attracted, just... characters I generally like and pick as my favorites) in characters (shyness and awkwardness, creativity, quiet bravery, down-to-earth-ness, wit and snark that doesn't venture into meanness, making mistakes and having flaws but owning up to them, underdog status, Badass Normal-hood, and I generally go for the comic relief characters), I like in both men and women characters.

Anyway, your attitude is one thing when it comes to fictional characters, but being okay with the POTUS being bad at their job because of their gender seems both sexist and risky to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Humans tend to like different behavioral patterns for different genders, so I don't really see where people are going with the "YOU'D LIKE HER IF SHE WAS A GUY!!"-thing.

That's because you're part of the problem. Acceptable human behavior spreads across several ranges; it's not two boxes, one labeled "girls" and one labeled "guys".

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

That's true. Guess I shouldn't have placed that thought as one the fandom was filled with before S3.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, do you mean after? After/During season 3 some people wanted her to die in a fire, but before that, I can't think of anyone who really hated her.

[uponadecember.livejournal.com]

I know there wasn't any strong hate for her before then. I just jumped too quickly from the idea of Mike and Bryan getting feedback between S2 and S3 to what the fandom wanted to happen to her during S3.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah! I understand now. Thank you. :)