[ SECRET POST #1981 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1981 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 68 secrets from Secret Submission Post #283.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[velvet_mace]

I love fantasy and Sci-fi -- but I think a lot of my love has to do with the writer understanding just what is the premise they are working with and keeping things logically consistant. Otherwise it's just a mess that is really hard for me to buy into.

For me, the lack of understanding the basic 3rd grade math implications of the society really jarred. It would have been totally easy to fix: simply have the breeders have 10-15 kids rather than 2-4. The fact that the author didn't take even the simplest steps to reality check their premise throws me in doubt that they really thought through the consequences of anything in their world. And lo and behold, the world doesn't make sense, not even if you accept the deliberate magical premise.

Which for me makes me start looking at what the philosophy behind this is, because it's presented like this book has some real world relevancy and isn't just an angsty fic. Take 1984 -- there you have a world where you take something that actually exists as a problem in society (totalitarianism) and combine it with technology and made a logical postulation of the society that would develop. But there was none of that here.

And then the book just seemed incredibly shallow to me: angst for angst sake, terrible things happen and it's all sad for no good reason. And while I accept loving angst as a narrative kink, it doesn't make me rate the Giver as being particularly better than any other story.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree about the population issue (I'm the same anon that replied below). It makes no sense to have women forced into giving birth and then only use them for three children (which, imho, is no worse than any of the jobs anyone else has; there's less "honor" but no one chooses their job and everyone receives what they need). That necessitates a large turnover rate. Sure, it solves the problem of having enough Laborers but if you're going to exploit the Birthmothers, why not exploit them in a way that solves your population problem? Why have nuclear families that at best create no population growth? There's two child deaths recorded in the book. At least one of the children is replaced, but because of the Birthmother rule, you still have negative population growth.

I find the world-building interesting. It is flawed, sure, but the symbology of age, the repression of sexual urges, and the concept of having your job chosen for you are still as intriguing to me as they were when I read it in middle school.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

You know this is basically Baby's First Look Into Dystopian Sci-Fi and Philosophical Themes in Literature, right? Comparing it to 1984 is pretty hilariously disingenuous.

Also, disregarding the themes behind an entire book because of a math error seems a bit like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. This isn't a book where the worldbuilding is the whole point of the work. It's not. The setting is just an excuse to explore the deeper themes of the book, in a way that's easily graspable for young readers.

[velvet_mace]

Well, what are those themes? And do those themes actually make any sense?

[(Anonymous)]

I would say the biggest theme would be the cost of comfort. Would it be worth it to live in a society that is basically free of all want and hardship, when the price is a society that lacks any sort of deeper meaning in their lives? In fact, what would it take to have a society where everyone was virtually happy with as little strife as possible? It basically questions the nature of humanity in a way that kids can easily digest (and with a handy-dandy very literal plot device and super-literal name).

I seem to remember the nature of morality and the price of personal responsibility are twined together pretty heavily throughout the book as well, though obviously not as deeply as the aforementioned theme.

That's all that I can remember for now, but I honestly haven't read the book in many years (so many that I can't even remember the last time I read it). All the themes are pretty obvious, and don't take a lot to figure out (probably why the book was a big hit with pre-teen literary curriculum for a while. They're deep enough to bring up bigger topics, but obvious enough that kids should be able to identify them without much trouble).

I don't think the book is The Best Kid's Lit Book EVAR, or that it should be free from criticism, but I do think it does a good job at what it sets out to do and reducing it to "angst for angst's sake" is missing the point entirely.