[ SECRET POST #1986 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1986 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22.


__________________________________________________






Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0- not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - going to have to be a little more subtle than this ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I really like everything in this comment, but especially the Clint/Coulson bit. Obviously people can ship whatever they want, but usually I "get it" even if it I'm not into it. It bugs me that I can't understand the appeal in this one. If it was just a few people shipping it here and there I'd pass it off as just one of those really random ships that we all get from time to time, but the popularity makes me feel like I'm missing some obvious appeal?

*whispering* ...Anyone wanna try to convert me to the pairing while I'm here? Really, I'd welcome it because then I'd have new fic options!

[oftheark]

I think it's because of the use of the word "handler" in reference to Coulson's role. No, seriously.

Also, they have a history/camraderie that was actually shown before Avengers (in Thor) whereas I found the whole Clint/Nat thing fell really flat for me because I was just constantly told that they have this super awesome connection and relationship and was never actually shown it. By the time they had any scenes together, I was tired of hearing about them.

...and I say all this as someone who doesn't even ship Coulson/Clint, but can "get" it more than I can Clint/Nat.

[hwc]

Disclaimer: I ship Natasha/Clint.

Were we really told that they had this super awesome connection, though? I just remember her taking mention of Hawkeye very personally and her checking up on the status report of the search for him. The only time I remember where their relationship is specifically mentioned is when she goes to interrogate Loki.

Was there any other mention of them in the movie? As a shipper I find it very relevant to my interests, after all. :P

[oftheark]

I felt like it was forced, especially as it was the motivation for Nat joining the team to begin with. All Coulson had to say was "Barton's been compromised." and Nat was raring to go. And yeah, the scene with Loki later just reinforced that seemingly super awesome connection, what with being told Clint apparently went against orders when he was sent to kill Nat and let her live instead (though we're not told why, which was a case in which telling instead of showing would have actually helped).

I also saw zero chemistry between ScarJo and Renner, which is a subjective thing I know. Frankly, I thought she had more chemistry with Banner, though in no way romantic. She and Renner came off as completely flat and cold to me.

[hwc]

It's my headcanon that Natasha completely played Loki in that scene and that she made all that overly sentimental he-saved-me crap up to get him to underestimate him, actually, because it doesn't sound very in-character to me. :/ As you said, we're not given a good reason why Clint would do that, after all.

About ScarJo and Renner, did you see any of their joint interviews? I shipped Natasha/Clint before I saw the interviews, but afterwards I shipped them even more. These two are adorable. /tangent

Agreed on the chemistry between Natasha and Bruce. Their's is a relationship I would love to see fleshed-out in the sequel.

[oftheark]

I could buy that if Loki didn't already know a lot of their history - or at least about Nat - through Clint telling him. I honestly can't remember what prompts that particular story, though.

And no, I actually haven't seen very much promo for the movie in general and what I have seen I saw afterward. I tend to be more interested in characters than actors, so it's not something I concern myself with in general.

[hwc]

Damn, you're right, I forgot that Loki already knew of their history. Clint told him at least of the things Natasha did where lots of people died as a result. Oh well, that's why they call it headcanon. :P

[got_swagger]

It's my headcanon that Natasha completely played Loki in that scene and that she made all that overly sentimental he-saved-me crap up to get him to underestimate him, actually, because it doesn't sound very in-character to me.

I get that. When they were having their conversation about not being trained for that particular situation, nothing screamed "you saved me" from her. If anything, it felt like a "we have each other's backs because we've been working together for so long" moment.

I thought Natasha had chemistry with everyone, tbh, which is subjective, I know. Somehow I came out of that movie shipping her with everyone, Clint and Thor especially.

[hwc]

"we have each other's backs because we've been working together for so long

That's exactly how I read their relationship, and I really hope that that's what TPTB will run with when they make the Black Widow movie.


I ship pretty much everyone with anyone in this movie. It's ridiculous. Do you mind explaining how you came to ship Natasha/Thor? I have to admit, that's the first time I heard about that ship.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, that part was definitely canon and true, but I bet she wanted to make Loki think it was "omg he saved me from evil with penis!" rather than "what he did helped me realize what I was doing was wrong". :P

[truxillogical]

I don't ship 'em, but I am with you 100% on BW playing Loki in that scene. It actually kind of makes me side-eye fic that refers to anything she said as perfect fact. Hell, I don't even buy Barton being the one to bring her in. (He's a sniper, what is he doing getting close enough to a target as dangerous as Natasha to get the feeling that said target deserves a second chance?) I guess Loki could've called her on her lie there, but figured he'd score more of a hit with the "terrible things that you've done" line of threats.

Plus, him bringing her in makes the ship less pleasant for me. It makes it feel like he spared her because she was pretty or something, which...eh.

Proving me an absolute hypocrite, though, is the fact that if it becomes about Clint and Coulson making the call to bring her in, I'm for it. Likewise on the ship. I don't have a lot of OT3, but I kind of like the three of 'em.

[hwc]

I ship them in the romantic and in the friendship way. Honestly, as long as they are together and kick ass I'm happy, and if it turns out they're "just" BAMF BFFs then I'm going to be just as satisfied as if had found out that they're a couple.

Ha, I side-eye origin-fic which uses Clint sparring her life as well. It just doesn't ring true to me. For one, I'd like to think that Clint is a more efficient agent than that. I mean, he's a sniper, he doesn't get close to a target. And two, Natasha is a BAMF spy. It doesn't seem likely to me that she would let something slip that would make Clint see that she's good inside or whatever. In her line of work it's kind of important that people don't be able to read her.

Headcanon time: I'd like to think that it's either
a) SHIELD send Clint specifically to recruit her and they danced around each other and kicked ass (together against her enemies and each other's asses) until Natasha gained enough respect for Clint to actually consider his proposal or
b) Natasha was sent to kill some Senator or whatever, and Coulson was planted as the Senator's aide or something to take out the assassin. Things happened, including hot, hot sex after which both sides thought now would be the perfect time to take the other out and a fight ensued which Coulson won on account of being a sneak and having back-up (Hawkeye). But instead of taking Natasha out he's so impressed by her skills that he brings her into SHIELD and makes her an offer she can't refuse. (It's either work for this super secret government agency that gets you all the best toys, and the best targets and pays rather handsomely or rot in a cell/get a bullet between the eyes. But Coulson sells it better and it's not like Natasha has any love for her previous employer.

As for Loki, I think it's possible that he didn't know how she came to SHIELD because he only had Clint tell him about the things he could use to hurt her, like her screw-ups and whatever happened in that one hospital. He was so focused on being superior to this helpless little girl and anticipating destroying her with his little speech that he didn't even notice that Natasha played him like a fiddle in that scene. After all, he's the grand Manipulator, the Liesmith. Surely no one would be as presumptous as to dare to lie to him?

(I have a lot of headcanon for this franchise, which I might be a bit too happy to share. Sorry for the tl;dr.)

[truxillogical]

Clint/Nat doesn't exactly fall flat for me, I just like them better as Not A Couple. The idea of two characters, especially a man and a woman, with the kind of connection they show in the scene where Clint wakes up, without them having to be in a relationship...that's really freaking appealing to me. I love the idea of the two of them as soldiers who trust each other almost completely, and don't need to be screwing to make that a thing. Just because it's kind of new. Plus, I love that Natasha doesn't have to justify her existence as The Action Chick by also being romantically involved with someone.

Clint and Coulson, I dunno why, but it just appeals to me too. Well, for that matter, Nat/Steve kind of appeals to me in a fanfic sense as well.

[oftheark]

Personally, I don't think of Clint/Nat as romantic, either, and not just because I didn't see any chemistry. I think it was intentionally left ambiguous because there simply wasn't room for a romance with everything else going on. And I'm a big believer that men and woman don't have to be screwing each other to have a solid friendship, too. :)

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't see them as a couple (as a potential couple yes, but I wasn't looking for canon evidence of onscreen romance), so maybe you were just focused on the romantic aspect of it?

I found their connection to be really interesting re: the contrast and comparison between Clint and Natasha's personalities, and the way you could kind of infer things about the nature of their friendship by looking at the contrast between the things Natasha did for Clint and the uber-stoic way she talked about him. Kind of gets your mind wondering and trying to figure out what they were really thinking and feeling during the whole ordeal, because we have some hard details of their connection revealed, but most of it is very mysterious because Natasha = not a feelings person and Clint = brainwashed for most of the movie. IMO, they didn't have a lot expressed onscreen, but they had loads of possibilities that come out as soon as you start trying to analyze or describe them.

/not even a shipper

[(Anonymous)]

Everything about this.

I go back and forth between shipping it romantically and shipping it as Soldier BFFs.

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

They're a rare case of me being equally enthused about the idea of them being platonic bffs and the idea of them being a couple. Friends? Awesome. Couple? If written properly, also awesome. My only concern is that romances are harder to do right than friendships.

I think my favorite scenario would be a random scene in the sequel where someone makes some innuendo about them, and one of them says "oh, actually we've been secretly married for three years. Forgot to mention it before" even that's probably never gonna happen. XD Because pre-established battle couples are my fav.

[ninety6tears]

They're a rare case of me being equally enthused about the idea of them being platonic bffs and the idea of them being a couple. Oh god, me too. Just make them do something together and I'm happy.

[oftheark]

I wasn't looking for romance. I just didn't get chemistry from them at all, on any level, even as friends. I accept they have a super awesome connection - be it romantic or not (and I fall more into the 'not' category)- because canon says it's true and therefore, it's true. I just didn't see it.

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, those things are very YMMV.

Spoilers for Avengers, I guess

[hwc]

Apparently there was a scene in Thor where Clint and Coulson talked that sparked it? I don't know, I still haven't seen Thor and I can't find the scene on Youtube, but the way I understand it someone wrote (crack?)ship fic, Coulson fans liked it and then fandom ran with it.

Personally, I fell in love with Coulson during Avengers, went to read fic and was surprised as anyone that most Coulson fic is him paired with Clint. I read some fics out of the sheer crackiness of the pairing (in Avengers they didn't have a single scene together, after all) and somehow fell in love with the ship BECAUSE of the fic. There's some lovely Coulson/Hawkeye fics out there, and they convinced of the ship. I regret nothing. :)

Re: Spoilers for Avengers, I guess

[truxillogical]

There is that.

I don't know what made me check out a Clint/Coulson fic, but I was kind of sort of shipping it even before the Avengers, just for the fic alone.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get Clint/Coulson either. Or really Coulson/Anyone. I like the guy, I just get no shipping vibes from him at all.

[honestys_easy]

The Clint/Coulson ship developed because of the S.H.I.E.L.D. scene in Thor, when Thor storms the New Mexico operations to get back his precious hammer. Coulson sends Hawkeye "up high" for a good sniper viewpoint should the situation get out of hand. Although, iirc, Hawkeye isn't mentioned by name in the scene, we all know who he is and the audience gets a kick out of seeing Renner's cameo. The repartee between Clint and agent Coulson during the scene sparked the ship.

Admittedly, I think the Clint/Coulson fans took one scene and ran with it to amazing lengths, but I don't see what's so wrong with that? I mean, ships have been based on far less in the source material before. The appeal of the pairing, I think, is that there is so little to work around from canon, that you can mold and play with in fanfiction or fanart or what have you. The pairing has become popular with people who like to develop their own backstories, or like more freedom to work with characters in their own fanfiction. Also, since Coulson was a Marvel movieverse OC (but, iirc, has since appeared in select comic books), Clint/Coulson fans don't have comic purists breathing down their necks about accuracy or incorrect backstories or retcons or whatever (as I assume Steve/Tony movieverse fans get a lot of).

[truxillogical]

My knee-jerk reaction is The Avengers Time Bomb Initiative, but to be honest, it's not really a shippy fic at all. What makes that fic just fantastic is the interaction of the whole team (most ship fics really only focus on the characters being shipped, which is fine, but still). I mean, there is just some truly golden dialogue with Steve adjusting to the 21st century.

I think the one that caught me was To Live For a Moment In Unison.

Let's see: I've Got Your Words In Me is one. Not To Say the Things We Mean is an interesting sort of fix-it to the movie.

It's odd, my favorite things are the get-together fics, but I can't seem to find the ones I really like right now. AO3 is giving my computer a hard time, but yeah, it's worth just checking out the tag and clicking what takes your fancy.

In terms of converting without fic...I've got an essay somewhere around here, but it's dinner time, soo... The short version is secret agent romance is fun, Coulson is sexily competent and so, for that matter, is Clint, and it's just plain fun.