fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1987 ]

[ SECRET POST #1987 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1987 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 096 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Anyone who has a smutty fic up at ff.net, heads up: They've apparently started to delete fics (and the associated reviews) without warning. From the front page:

*****
June 4th 2012 -- Notices:

Please note we would like to clarify the content policy we have in place since 2002. FanFiction.Net follows the Fiction Rating system ranging from Fiction K to Fiction M. Although Fiction Ratings goes up to Fiction MA, FanFiction.Net since 2002 has not allowed Fiction MA rated content which can contain adult/explicit content on the site. FanFiction.Net only accepts content in the Fiction K through Fiction M range. Fiction M can contain adult language, themes and suggestions. Detailed descriptions of physical interaction of sexual or violent nature is considered Fiction MA and has not been allowed on the site since 2002.

It wouldn't really be a problem if they enforced their rules all the time, not just every few years or whenever it tickled their fancy.

And if they actually went after all the rule-breaking fics.

And if they didn't delete fics that had been report erroneously or that had been edited to fit with the rules.

:/

It gave the impression that explicit sexual content was allowed when it was not. It's their fault for sucking so hard at moderation.

Thank you for the heads-up, though! I had already heard thanks to visiting fanfiction-oriented communities and such, but it's still nice of you.

No problem! I figure this sort of thing probably should go out to as many people as possible. :-/

And yeah, I agree with you 100%. I was positive that all my own stuff was fine for their site, for example, but now, reading what they're saying on the front page, I'm not so sure. :-( I've saved my fics that may be at risk for potential reposting elsewhere (and the reviews), but, yeah, honest-to-gods I thought I was within their guidelines.

Guess we'll find out.

Their submission guidelines are sort of hidden, considering how important they are. I think you only get to see them when you sign up?

And they only mention briefly really important things without explaining them well.

For example, if your story has a curse word in the title or in the summary? It gets deleted. Even if the rating was M.

Explicit sex scene? Cut. The M-rating doesn't allow that.

Song lyrics in your fic? Cut.

A chapter consisting of author's notes? Cut.

Script format fic? Cut. (It's when the fic is like this:

Character A: Dialogue.

Character B: Dialogue.)

Terrible spelling, punctuation, grammar, all in one go? Cut.

Gore-levels type of violence? Cut.

Excessive swearing? Cut.

Challenges (where people don't actually post the story, they only issue a challenge)? Cut.

But you wouldn't know looking at the thousands of fics breaking the rules.

I've reported so many stories and they were still there years later. They only go on deleting purges every few years or so, and only hit the reported stories or use bots to automatically search for specific words.

And there are only so many reported stories because there are dedicated communities to that, some of which are troll-level sort of harassing.

The staff doesn't really care. But ff.net is the biggest community and the best bet to get noticed (with very few exceptions for specific fandoms), so people keep using it.

Other alternatives have popped up (ArchiveOfOurOwn.org, um, there are others but I don't remember their names from memory sorry), but they all run into some common problems:

1. No matter how hard they promote them, people still don't use them as much as ff.net.

2. They don't really have the money to keep large traffic. (AO3's main problem is this.)

3. Successfully moderating and administrating such a site is more effort than most people think, and most people who try it aren't prepared for it.

So, yeah.

Hidden? You have to agree to them every 3 days, and if you haven't within those 3 days, it won't let you upload. So effectively, every time you upload a story you have to scroll over them.

It does suck that they haven't been consistent, but that doesn't mean enforcing them now is wrong. People knew it was against the rules, or didn't read the rules at all. Their fault. Time to finally face the consequences. I don't have a scrap of pity for people whose rule-violating fic is deleted.

(Wrongly reported is a different story, but most of what I'm seeing is WAAH NOT MY SMUT/SCRIPT FORMAT/SONGFIC!!! Which has always been clearly against the rules.)

Huh. I didn't know that. I haven't uploaded a story in about ten years, so it's either changed or I don't remember any more.

Oh, I don't pity the authors of deleted smut/script/song-fics either. I only really feel bad for authors who, after being told by friends that they were breaking the rules, they changed their story to stop breaking them, but because they had been reported months earlier, they still got their stories deleted and their account frozen. THAT I don't like.

Of course it's a good thing that they're enforcing their rules! What I'm complaining about is that they only do it when they feel like it, letting years -literally- go by between one purge and another, instead of moderating the site regularly, like they're supposed to.

Well, yes, but how explicit is explicit? I myself have always tried to keep within their rules, but it's hard to judge where that line is drawn when the other fics on the site one can look to as examples of what is permitted may themselves, it ends up, not be within guidelines.

I mean, okay, so no songfics/scripts, that one's pretty easy to determine. But what precisely is meant by "coarse" language, for example, is sort of subjective without a list of "Don't ever use these or it'll come down" words. I mean, I for example consider "damn" pretty low-grade, permissible cursing, but then I did have a reader complain about it. So is it allowed or not? You know?

I'm honestly not trying to be nit-picky about it; I'm just saying that it can be difficult to figure out precisely where that line is and I wish they'd define it better. Ideally with concrete examples. :-/

I have to say, while I understand completely pulling a fic that contains plagiarism with no warning, I am really upset to hear that a fic might get pulled simply because a character might be saying "Fuck." in it somewhere, no matter how justified it might be. I honestly have no idea if "fuck" makes something T, M, or MA :-( (I thought it was T if it was only used once or twice) and I hate to think that I may get a story pulled with no warning, no chance whatsoever to go and fix that one stupid word in a 30,000 word story. The more I think about it, the more it really ticks me off.

You do see the guidelines every time you post a story (unless you do them within a couple of days of each other; they make you go over the ToS if you haven't looked at it within a few days) but, thing is, so far as I could tell from them, I've been keeping within their guidelines. I haven't had anything pulled yet, but it's bloody nerve-wracking, I tell you, and I don't need any additional stress in my life right now. I can't understand why they wouldn't just drop the author a PM with a warning and so long to fix it? Do they honestly get so many reports in each day that they just can't keep track of everything to be able to say, "Yeah, this fic has had their warning and ignored it so pull that one but this one hasn't so give them their warning first"? I am pretty damned positive that it is possible to automate that shit. Hell, it ought to be possible to automate a curse-word detector for the title/summary so it fails right when you try and post it! At the very least, it ought to have a specific warning for that too, if words used there which might be fine in the body of the piece would get it pulled. And dammit, can't they have a list up somewhere of the kids of words they don't like? I had one reader complaining about all the cursing in one of my fics, and for the most part, all they were saying was "Damn"! Chapters in which they only said "damn" she complained about. And yet, I am pretty damned sure that "damn" doesn't merit an M rating (let alone an MA).

Urgh. No idea where I stand now. *Pulls hair*

I have no idea if that would make it T or M. That's what I mean about them not explaining their rules like they should. :/

What you propose makes too much sense and requires effort, so I doubt they'll do it. :(

thanks! I'm gonna try saving some of the fics from the site.

I didn't know ff.net allowed smut

Seven years ago that stuff got deleted in minutes.

Well, it seems to depend on how much detail one goes into. I think if it's all breathless sighs and heaving bosoms you're fine; you're probably okay with manhoods probing warm wetnesses and stuff. I think? But when cocks start entering slick wet pussies, I think they get upset.

Honestly, it would be really helpful if they'd have some concrete examples up.

It's not allowed, but the staff is laaaazy and let that shit pile up even after it's been reported, so the they go on crazy purges every now and then. And they still don't get everything.

This whole thing irritating, if they are going to actually enforce the rules of the site they need to be consistent about it. Doing nothing for years, then having mass deletions out of the blue is BS.

And it's really nitpicky, but I'm miffed about them making ordered by popularity the default. It took me a while to figure out how change it back when they did it, and I didn't think I was ever going to find the category for the small fandom I'm in. The popularity thing is stupid, especially on a site like FF.net where smaller fandoms depending on additions and deletions could move around frequently.

Yes, I agree. If they're going to allow stuff to slide for years, then it makes it look like it's actually allowed after all. At which point I figure it's only common courtesy to let someone know that their fic which has been up there for years with no problems is about to be deleted because in Chapter whatever, such-and-such language isn't permitted. Because as I said above, for an example, I think the possibility that I may lose an entire 30,000-word story (not to mention all the associated reviews) just because in say Chapter 8 someone says "Fuck!" without me even being told that it's an issue and being given a chance to correct that one frigging word, when it's been up for years and, going by what is apparently permitted (looking at what else is up on the site) was perfectly fine-- gah.

Is sorting by popularity the automatic default? I always thought it sorted by newest to oldest. How do they even rank popularity? Hits? Number of reviews? Without having some kind of rating system like adultfanfiction.net has (which I really like, btw; just because something's only had a few reviews doesn't mean people aren't reading it and enjoying it; and of course just because it has a lot of reviews doesn't mean it's not full of people going "Um... yeah.") then how do they rank popularity, I wonder?

I mean, going just by hits, something like "My Immortal" might be one f the most popular fics on the site! Which I suppose is probably true at that, heh.

Sorry, I meant the fandom categories are sorted by popularity(# of fics for that fandom.)not the fics themselves. If you go into the book section Harry Potter is the first on the list now. You have to change it back to alphabetical yourself now every time you go on the site. It's just stupid for a site like FF.net that has so much changing all the time, smaller fandoms jump all over the place frequently with a system like that, especially when they go on their deletion sprees.

Like I said it's really nitpicky, but it gets on my nerves since I'm in a small fandom I nearly didn't find the category for before I figured out you have to click on the 'all' in front of the alphabet list.

Ah, I see! That makes sense, thanks!

I honestly never really noticed that, probably because my fandoms never end up in the top-whatever most popular ones, so I pretty much just go "Search" and pick a category automatically.

I can see why that would be annoying, though! I remember waaay back when, just after the first Hellboy movie came out, how excited we were when ff.net finally created a specific Hellboy category, instead of just lumping those fics under "Misc." Made it much easier to find them!

Now if we can just get people posting in Misc to list the fandom in their summaries... XD

Try http://www.patronuscharm.net/

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1987 ]

Fanfiction.net Deleting Smutty Fics

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Harry Potter fanfiction writers jumping ship