[ SECRET POST #2000 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2000 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12. [posted twice]


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________






Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[thewordlovely]

I didn't get the impression that the audience was supposed to feel that much sympathy for Loki in the Avengers. I haven't seen Thor - my understanding is that he is seen as more sympathetic there, but in the Avengers he was pretty vile the whole way through, except for one scene that I can recall. I didn't really feel like the audience was supposed to sympathize with him at all.

[writerserenyty]

I don't think so either. I think fandom made Loki sympathetic because they like him and they like Tom Hiddleston, but he's not intended to be sympathetic at all.

[deadtree]

the first time through I would agree with that, but the more often I watch it, the more sympathetic Loki is-- when you start realizing that a lot of what he's doing is because he's being forced, was tortured, is terrified, etc, he becomes a lot more sympathetic. MCU Loki is a total woobie.
But yeah on the surface, unsympathetic.

[thewordlovely]

I agree that the second time I watched I did see him as more sympathetic - but I blame that at least partially on reading a sympathetic fic between the two viewings :D

[auntmo9]

I would pretty much agree that fandom/fic has tired to portray Loki as sympathetic. I have seen the movie twice, but have avoided fic that shows Loki in a sympathetic light because it doesn't appeal to me/it's not my personal taste. So neither of the times I saw the movie did I think Loki was a sympathetic villain.

[(Anonymous)]

a lot of what he's doing is because he's being forced, was tortured, is terrified, etc
This is open to interpretation.

[deadtree]

of course it is, that's what makes a good villain

[(Anonymous)]

You used second person to state this as a self-evident widely-accepted fact that rebutted the OP. Whilst there are many things about the characters in the Avengers that are widely-accepted, this is not one of them.

[deadtree]

Okie dokie. Semantics. I accept my misuse of the second person.

[(Anonymous)]

May I ask - in your viewing of the film, at what point was he being forced and tortured, and when was he terrified?

I honestly did not see that myself and would like to know where your interpretation comes from.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I'll have a crack. Loki looked like shit at the start of the movie, and appeared very weak. He also looked like possessed Hawkeye and Selvig in the sweaty disheveled cocaine appearance. Arguable that was due to the tesseract, and his appearance subsequently improved, though in the scene with the Other where it threatens Loki, it appears their arrangement was not entirely amicable.

Thor accuses Loki of not being his own person in his actions. Whether you interpret that as forced or a partnership is up to you.

In Germany, Loki certainly seems to be having fun on his own account.

When Loki looks around and says "it's too late" to Thor, he could be saying it from fear, or he could be saying it from a lack of faith in being able to wipe out the red in his ledger.

Fanon will say stuff like he's being mind-controlled, & that his eyes are bluer than in Thor (?!), but in canon, it's disputable.

[deadtree]

Well said anon!

[deadtree]

The bits where I started thinking Loki wasn't working entirely of his own volition, in particular, are when he is threatened by the Chitauri leader ; the two times when he talks to Thor and legitimately seems to be sad (or at least contemplative) about not being able to turn back (my interpretation of course); and also the point when Coulson tells him he lacks conviction. That line is what led me to rewatch with a critical eye on Loki, because it wasn't put there by mistake. Loki seems to be tired and /or in pain for a significant part of the film as well.
So that's what I am going on. I think he was deliberately set up this way so that his character can continue to be used in future films where he's not the main villain.

[(Anonymous)]

The "lacks conviction" line was fantastic and very telling.

I saw his errors as stemming more from hate/trauma/fear/craziness/ego/fatigue than flat out stupidity, though I do acknowledge that he was played for laughs too (very funnily), so that's a valid alternative interpretation.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Fandom tries to weave a tale about how he's being made to and he's not just insane but he's not. He's a calculating ass who's too entrenched in his own false victim fantasy to admit what he's doing is wrong.