[ SECRET POST #2002 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2002 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - text comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

lol, you read a lot into my comment that wasn't there.

I was just making a point: having homosexuality in fanon isn't the same thing as having it in canon, and people would like to see the latter.

I didn't say anything about the reasons it is/isn't present in LoK. And I really don't think having open room to make it up is the same thing as an explicitly portrayed same-sex couple or non-straight character.

I'm not in any way surprised that it didn't happen in LoK, nor am I particularly buttmad about it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really care, either. I'm honestly not interested in romance in cartoons. If they're going to handle it poorly or they have a demographic who wouldn't like them to include X, I don't see it as horribly homophobic for the creators not to include it.

[diet_poison]

I don't think there is any evidence that the creators are homophobic. I do think it would be cowardly not to include it just because some of their viewers are homophobic, though. I just don't think the reason is that simple.

When I say people want more gay representation in media, I'm speaking for a lot of people, not just myself. As far as I am concerned, yes I want it, but I blame our culture more than any given writer. In a position like theirs, it's hard to do that with LoK - even if they wanted to.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

I think, though, that people want gay characters above and beyond what exists irl. Gays make up, at most, less than 20% of the world population. If you're trying to portray the real world or worlds that reflect the real world, you're not going to have five or six gay characters in the main cast. But then you have people getting mad about "token" gay characters. You can't win.

[diet_poison]

Well, you have a good point - no matter how they did it, some people would complain. But it's got to start somewhere.

[altuscor.livejournal.com]

I think if people keep putting off gay characters out of fear of receiving homophobic backlash, then gay characters won't ever be accepted in mainstream cartoons as main characters who just happen to be homosexual.

It's gonna happen sooner or later, it might as well be now, so people can cause an uproar, hopefully get it out of their system and get used to it, and gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender characters won't be seen as such a "novelty" and a cause for controversy, but rather as characters' whose stories are just as, well, valid as their heterosexual counterparts.

[(Anonymous)]

Then the best thing would be for the gay community to be more accepting of attempts to make a gay character. This would apply for all minorities. If people keep getting mad about characters not matching up to what they want or calling creators homophobic or racist for coming the teeniest bit close to a stereotype, yeah, it's going to scare the shit out of creators. When people get mad and say straight women are fetishizing gay men by publishing stories about them, yeah, it's going to keep more people from trying.

There needs to be some leeway on the part of communities gay, black, transexual, autistic, etc., characters are targeting. Otherwise, straight, able-bodied, neurotypical, white creators (of which there is a majority in Western media) are going to continue to avoid characters that might cause a backlash.

[(Anonymous)]

"Otherwise, straight, able-bodied, neurotypical, white creators (of which there is a majority in Western media) are going to continue to avoid characters that might cause a backlash."

The multiple secrets we've received regarding fledgling writers or creators afraid of writing minorities for fear of getting them wrong and causing a backlash can attest to this.

And from what I've heard, it's more of the same in the professional world.

[altuscor.livejournal.com]

The gay community is as accepting as they come. I think so, at least. I don't know about you, or anybody else, but we can tell when a gay character becomes so much of a stereotype or gets "put on the bus". You hear about damsels in distresses who can't do anything for themselves or are totally dependent on men for her wants and needs? You can expect a backlash because that's definite bad writing and characterisation there. But that's seriously going to extremes. I argue that it's similar to gay characters- you write one that's image-obsessed, promiscuous, and effete, (playing that stereotype to the hilt and highlighting the negative attributes of that stereotype), then of course you will at least raise a few eyebrows. I don't know if I'm being idealistic here, but I think writers know better than that.

And if they're going to pull a stereotype, it really depends on the delivery. I mean, we have Fire Emblem (http://tigerbunny.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Emblem) from Tiger and Bunny and he's a walking stereotype. But for some reason, it works for me- you know why? He's still part of a team of superheroes, he can still hold out on his own as a superhero, and while he may think of himself as "gender-free", the other characters don't seem to have any real issue with this and he's still treated as part of the core unit of superheroes.

I know your blame rests on the fandom not being happy with characters who are part of minority groups, and not the writers. But seriously, as a gay person myself, I can appreciate a lot of gay characters, and a lot of which belong to stories and comics written and produced by independent writers and artists. Of course you'd have your vocal few who just can't be pleased with anything. But the point I'm trying to make is that if a creator is worth their weight in gold, they would've done their research and written their characters in a way that makes them believable. If a creator is worth their weight in gold, they'd know how to write characters and plots which people can appreciate.

I may not speak for all of us, but I think we can tell where the effort's been put. The gay community isn't rife with pedantic individuals who say that everything needs to be right. I don't think so. At least not with the group I run with. We're still people who can appreciate a damn good story.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

It's not just the gay community the backlash comes from (I'm saying this as a bisexual myself), though. It's anyone who watches/reads/consumes the product. And if only a couple of people are unhappy, it's still enough to make most non-minority creators to go, "you know what? I'm not gonna chance it. I don't need people telling me I'm homophobic or racist or a privileged white/straight/neurotypical/cisgender/what-have-you. I'm going to tell the stories I want the way I want, but cut down on anything that can be seen as offensive". And that's certainly a valid viewpoint.

There are plenty of stories of fic writers with EDs or mental disorders that experience backlash for writing about things they've directly experienced. People get snapped at for writing trans characters that don't meet reader's standards. Whites get told to stfu when they create a character who uses AAVE. People who make mistakes on foreign languages get them forced down their throats or told they're appropriating and insulting another person's culture. Most creators aren't looking for trouble, and the newer ones usually don't take criticism well. So they avoid doing what might stir up the vocal few, because, sometimes, they're the only ones who say anything at all.

I think you know a particularly nice group, but I also think there are a whole lot of people who complain about things that don't apply to them and would prefer everything be done only by people who have directly experienced those things.

[fuchsiascreams]

But then, I've also seen people get mad over characters being not stereotypical enough at times (see: the Korra debacle and why people get mad at some SJWs for saying that fandom writers don't make her have "ethnic enough problems"). You just can't win.

[(Anonymous)]

BUT SERIOUSLY, WHITE PEOPLE DO THIS BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT TO SEE WHITE PEOPLE ON TV AND READ ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE AND LOOK AT PICTURES OF WHITE PEOPLE. THERE'S NO LOGICAL REASON WHATSOEVER FOR WHITE CREATORS TO AVOID USING MINORITY CHARACTERS.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually prefer more variety, both in what I see and what I create. I've decided that if I'm doing it wrong, people will tell me and I'll learn.

[fuchsiascreams]

All white people exclusively only care about other white people. Fact.