fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2005 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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06. [nf]

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08. http://i.imgur.com/H1X1Z.gif
[linked because uh not sure if this is porn or not; live action]

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09. http://i.imgur.com/pNcu1.jpg
[porn of the drawn variety - Tintin]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILER WARNING for Hourou Musuko]

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12. [SPOILER WARNING for Prometheus]

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13. [SPOILER WARNING for Homestuck]

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14. [SPOILER WARNING for Avengers]

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15. [SPOILER WARNING for Merlin]

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16. [SPOILER WARNING for Tangled]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

17. [WARNING for ... pretty sure this has something to do with rape]

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18. [WARNING for rape]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Perhaps I worded that badly, but you (or someone else?) started talking about how fandom exaggerates JARVIS's intelligence, and I'm quite simply having trouble thinking of any sort of intelligence he could be shown to have that I would think was exaggerated, because in the movies he basically behaves like a human in almost every way. The only thing I can really think of that makes him more clearly an AI and not a person-intelligence thing is that he always follows Tony's orders no matter how dangerous the results will probably be for Tony, and a sworn duty to obey a superior's orders no matter what and being human have never really been mutually exclusive concepts.

Basically I'm confused by what people are saying are limitations they perceive to JARVIS's intelligence, clearly enough that they can tell when someone is "exaggerating" it in fanfiction, when I don't think we've really been shown any in particular. Unless, like others have said, you count "not being a main character that warrants that much screentime", as one of them, which I personally don't.

Of course, I have not read any fanfics with him in them. So... like... maybe they have him playing kawaii matchmaker with the Avengers or computer-fucking them or something and people are mad because fucking is people and a computer can't be people? Help me out here, how are people doing this.

AYRT

Well JARVIS!slash (generally as Paul Bettany) and AI!sex is pretty common in the fandom, yes. As well as fic from JARVIS' pov. Or fic with matchmaker!JARVIS. Or fic that explicitly gives the AI emotions and feelings. So yeah, fandom does exaggerate even to that level. But I have no problems with that when it's clearly fanon because well, ficcers write what they want. However, I don't think this leeway applies when it comes to meta or discussion of things that actually happened in the movie, where, I don't see any behavior from JARVIS which posits sentience/sapience.

It seems really strange to me that you take the ability to talk and snark and "fucking ability" as proof of sapience? Which is the point in this thread: that an anon, in a discussion, said that JARVIS had social abilities beyond an AI, and can go beyond its programming. Which, I don't think is proven at all.

We don't see any proof or disproof of the sentience of Tony's toaster in the movie. Certain people may write sentient!toaster fic, since toasters are generally non-sentient even if they make toast automatically; when it comes to discussing actual sentience of Tony's toaster it will be a bit silly to say that automatic toasting means it's definitely sentient. For me, it's the same case with Tony's AI. Since an AI's entire purpose is to mimic intelligence, a machine being successful at it doesn't seem to me to be proof that it's more than that at all, any more than I'd say that a Keepon has any "real" awareness of music and/or affection.

Well I wasn't... actually saying anything about "fucking ability", that was a joke. It would be out-of-character from what we see in the movie to see in a fic anyway and I don't give a shit about it, but that was what immediately occurred to me as a form of "exaggeration" that fandom people could possibly be engaging in.

I don't take any of it as proof, just that... if we're even entertaining the possibility of a computer being a person, what exactly can we definitively say are the traits it would have to display to show it is one and what disqualifies it from being one? Disobeying orders? The "stolid, dutiful butler" theme could cover that. He essentially is one, just invisible and with cool powers.

I'm not saying JARVIS is definitely sapient. Just that I don't know of anything I'd consider a huge exaggeration of his abilities, and his obedience may be an indicator that he's just a machine, but I see it as part of his personality as well. vOv Defining personhood as it applies to minor-character magical superhero AI systems isn't the most cut-and-dried of issues. I mean, at what point is it "mimicking intelligence" enough to actually maybe possess that intelligence?

[ SECRET POST #2005 ]

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