[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I see "feminist" and "feminist activist" like "Democrat/Republican" and "Democrat/Republican activist"

You can be a Democrat/Republican without taking an action, simply by registering for your party of choice. If anybody asks you, you can say you are one and you support the movement passively simply by giving it numbers. If asked, any of those "non-actives" you described would self-identify as feminists, and would help in that way

[stainless]

That makes sense. I sit corrected, I suppose. :-)

But I still have to say I find the whole "You're one of us regardless of whether you say so!" thing totally bizarre. I mean, if someone strongly supported causes, issues, and legislation backed by the Democratic party and yet said "I'm an Independent" I wouldn't say "No, you're a Democrat!"

I doubt I'd even say "I feel sad that you don't identify as a Democrat." I could see saying "Funny, you sure sound like one of us!" or asking why the person isn't, but I don't think I'd have the "You're wrong about yourself" reaction people have to others who say "I agree with you, but I don't really consider myself a feminist."

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I think the "You're one of us regardless" is more a not so great attempt at trying to say "by my understanding of the definition you are a feminist" but without actually explaining anything. It'd definitely annoying, but it's more a reaction to the extremists muddying the waters than anything else imho.

(Also just want to add I think you're dealing with all these comments with a very good attitude and explaining yourself well. A lot of people would get defensive and angry and stoop to mocking people for being Anon. Good for you for being awesome in the face of controversy.)

Re: DA

[stainless]

Thanks anon! I was trying to answer you yesterday but my power cut out, damn storm :-/

I agree that that's what's being said. I just think it has some really unfortunate implications. I think the strength of feminism is all it's done for women and the way that so many smaller and diverse submovements provide options for many women who want to focus on many different issues or axes of oppression.

But I think the major weakness of the movement is that for all its diversity, its members can get startlingly one true way. All the while insisting that because feminism is a broad umbrella, any discomfort someone feels is "false consciousness" or "internalized misogyny" or failure to "check" privilege of one kind or another.

And I wouldn't mock people for being anon, usually. :-) Personally I try to put my name on things because I feel it's generally nobler, but it does open you up to a lot of nastiness and wank. I can't say I always put my name on things myself, nor can I blame those who choose not to. :-)

[world_eater]

But I still have to say I find the whole "You're one of us regardless of whether you say so!" thing totally bizarre.

Eh, I think it's more bizarre that anyone would object to it. I mean... why, other than bad connotations?
Besides, it's often used as a wake-up call for the people who go "Ew feminists", not to literally label them. It's used to tell people "If you believe women and men should be treated equal, you're a feminist. That's it, no obligation to march or burn bras".
I mean, if you're (general you) that worried, nobody can "force" you to accept that term, right? It has no weight when a feminist calls you a feminist if you're that much against it, so I don't understand why it's supposed to be such a horrible thing either.

[stainless]

Eh, I think it's more bizarre that anyone would object to it. I mean... why, other than bad connotations?

Well, in my personal case it annoys me because I left the movement (because I really didn't like some people's behavior, not because I decided sexism is awesome) and it feels really erasing to read that that's somehow impossible to do.

But beyond that, I personally believe that we all get to label or refrain from labeling ourselves as we see fit. I think that others insisting that we accept labels is a violation of personal autonomy. (A minor one, but a very annoying one, considering that it seems to me that one of the goals of feminism is or at least should be that more people around the world respect women's autonomy.)

I also think "You're one of us, like it or not!" is a spectacularly bad way to handle the problem that feminism has bad PR. That's one of the reasons I left the movement. Not this specific "I'm calling you either a feminist or a misogynist" thing, but the tendency among some feminists to circle the wagons when criticized, rather than bothering to think about why other people might not feel they belong.

And I've known a lot of women who felt they didn't really belong (and, obviously, been one of those women myself.) Here's a list, some of which I am and most of which I'm not: Trans women. Women of color. Queer femmes. Kinky women. Going back in time a bit, butch women too. (I think there are still whiffs of this one, personally, but it's definitely not as strong as it once was.) Sex workers.

No, I don't fit into many of these categories. But I think it's my place as a decent person (I won't say "as an ally" as I think it runs deeper than that) to know and understand where these people might be coming from. And I do think that, yes, even looking at how others are treated might be a valid reason for someone to sadly relinquish a label until others behave.

But instead of recognizing these reasons, feminists often insist that those who have these concerns are either in denial or must be misogynists/"antifeminists" (I often wonder these days what that word is supposed to mean. I think we intended it to mean "people who support the oppression of women through word and deed," but far too often it turned out to parse as "people we want to insult.") That behavior bothers me.