[ SECRET POST #198 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #198 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 143 secrets from Secret Submission Post #029.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] personal attack.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, July 23rd, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

A year, two years, five years, that doesn't matter. The fact is that were this any other character with any other fandom, or had to do with any other pairing, people would be wondering. Do you think that in the span of only one year, someone like, I don't know, Vayne or Kefka or Sephiroth or even Xigbar (just to name a few) would go from cold, egotistical, self-centered, arrogant, manipulative bastards (well, not manipulative as much on Xigbar's part), to a simpering, whining, emotional thing that wanted to be closer to another person?

And if such a change were to occur in them, would it not seem out of character, or slightly suspicious as to the mental state of the writers if such a miraculous change happened with no explanation at all?

If you want an example of development, look at Sora. In the very first part of the first game, back on the Island, he was very naive, very nice, and pretty much an all around good kid with big dreams and a foolish hope to see other worlds. Now think of him at the end of KH2. More mature, serious, and filled with purpose. He isn't what he was back on the islands, and we got to see him grow into that. Would you expect all of that from him the first time he'd shown up in Traverse Town? I think not.

Have Square give development of the relationship as friends, or even show ANYTHING of Axel going from cold hearted, manipulative, evil, backstabbing bastard to the pathetic excuse for a Nobody that he was in KH2 and I might accept it, and even that would be a long shot.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Seriously. When this many people see KHII Axel and go "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED," obviously somebody writing the damn character DID SOMETHING WRONG.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I haven't even played very FAR into CoM, and I've beaten KH2. Just from the first encounter with Axel you can tell he's not the same. And when I take into account all I've heard about what he does in CoM, I can only be more sure of this fact.

CoM Axel : KH2 Axel :: Cloud : Zell

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Meaning:

NOT ALIKE AT ALL EXCEPT PASSINGLY IN APPEARANCE. (2D Axel looks COOLER)

(frozen comment)

[case]

He does. I liked the pixelly CoM one better.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Pixel was so much better. I'd like to see Demyx pixelated. I personally think that he'd be cool looking.

And while I'm on the topic of Demyx, I can see him as a friend to Axel a lot easier than Roxas. After all, Roxas was a damn cold bastard when he was in the Org., where both Axel and Demyx seem to get buy a lot on faked emotions, and deadly seriousness when needed.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Agreed. Roxas is a cold bastard. Why the hell is Axel friends with him in the first place, can anyone even answer that? "He made me feel like I had a heart" yeah HOW? For no reason??? By being a cold bastard?? WHat????

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Why? Because the writers have to add subtext in everything to create fanart/fics to create a larger fanbase to sell more product.

THAT IS THE ANSWER!

FANSERVICE EXISTS TO GET MONEY!

(frozen comment)

[amazingjana.livejournal.com]

*raises hand* >:

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Personally, the people you listed seemed more villainous to me than Axel ever seemed, so I can't make the connection you're asking me to make. (Kefka >>>>>> Axel, no ifs, ands or buts.)

Also, while this is a moot point, I will say this-- We can't help what the game developers didn't bother to give us. :/ The connection between the two Axels makes sense to me (yes, CoM Axel is meaner, but personally, I don't view Axel as wanting Roxas back, but as wanting that almost feeling back.), but seriously, it's my own personal head canon. And we can argue about head canons all damn day.

Plus-- comparing a side character's development to the main character's development isn't cool. :

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

I did not say that those characters were any better than Axel, but he did kill Vexen with very little good reason, am I not wrong? It is a rather fitting comparison then. But, I suppose there would always be those that would claim a sudden change in Kefka from evil god hell bent on world domination to happy circus clown in one year would say it was development.

And on your comments upon side character development compared to main character development, I give you the Xenosaga series. The main characters develop slowly, but at the same time, so do the side characters, like Allen, Febronia, Juli Mizrahi... Even Hammer and Tony are given more development to explain themselves than was given to the 180 in Axel's personality.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

... Axel killed Vexen to earn Marluxia's trust. :/ And as most of us have theorized, to stop Vexen from telling Sora the Big Secret of Roxas-- Which was kind of a moot point, because Roxas was a classic example of a useless character.

Eh, I've never played Xenosaga. I'm one of those strange people who actually enjoyed playing Chrono Cross and don't think Chrono Trigger was inherently better.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Alright, to give you a comparison you can better understand...

Ansem the Wise had no greater or lesser of a part than Axel himself had. And yet the old man was given more development in the bit of time that he existed without his mask than Axel was given in the whole of two games to explain the transformation from CoM bad-ass killer to KH2 idiot.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Okay, okay.

Point there, but what I'm trying to say is that they're clearly the same people, if not in your eyes, then he is in mine.

What about KH2!Axel screams that he's an idiot? Instead of making me defend myself over and over and over, why not explain to me why KH2!Axel is indeed this idiot incapable of the same acts as CoM Axel?

Let's see. He kidnaps Kairi, he taunts Sora with her, until the end. He tries to kill Roxas (and fails just as much as he did with Sora), leads Kairi on ("I have this. Do you really want it?" Remniscient of the way he did in CoM.)

What about KH2!Axel, aside from the lol, random friendship with Roxas, says that he's not the same person?

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

CoM: I will do anything for my own interests.
KHII: I will do anything to get my bestest best friend back.

CoM: If I have to kill all my own allies, so be it.
KHII: Nooooo, I'll die for you.

CoM: I will be openly evil to your face. And laugh at you. With pride.
KHII: I will beg at you to return to me, O Roxas. I will also snivel at Sora for taking him away. O woe.

CoM: I have no weaknesses, bitch. Just try me.
KHII: He made me feel like I had a heart. ;_;

(frozen comment)

[case]

This is making me want to write bad KH fanfiction. fgakndfgkadjhg

"Riku and Sora's Saturday Date"
Sora: we're 20 years old now
Sora: I LOVE LINKIN PARK
Riku: shut up I hate you dumbass
Sora: bitch
THE END

"WTF that's totally stupid and OOC"
"NO ITS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT"

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Well, I thought I was being wanky, but dear, that takes the cake. <3

(frozen comment)

[case]

It's 5 years later, I can see how it might have happened. Development. ♥

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

He's just taking your own approach. He sees it in his mind, there for is must be utterly true and irrefutable. If you try to prove him wrong with logic, well then, he's just going to deny it and lol at you and say that as long as he believes in it REALLY hard, it's real.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Plus-- comparing a side character's development to the main character's development isn't cool.

Uhhh so... if Hayner suddenly one day decided he hated the rest of the kids and started beating the crap out of them (even stabbing Pence in the back! see: Vexen) and you got no explanation for that whatsoever, that's completely acceptable in your book?

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

Wow, random example, wtf!

No, what I'm saying with that is that comparing how Hayner changes throughout the series with how Sora changes isn't fair, because Sora gets so much more screen time. The story's dedicated to him, we know his development is going to be executed well because if not, it's a bad game.

Also, I'm arguing under the assumption that, lol, KH2!Axel makes sense to me.

(frozen comment)

[mercale.livejournal.com]

Dedication of a story to Sora doesn't mean that everyone else is completely below notice and development.

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

No, it doesn't, but it still doesn't make the comparison fair.

(frozen comment)

[case]

Oh, right. Suppose it's pointless then. ):

(frozen comment)

[grazie.livejournal.com]

My point is, given the restraints of side characters' presented personalities, the viewer in Axel's case has to try to reason his actions out themselves. If they can, well then it just might not be OOC!

Which, I can do. So, telling me that CoM!Axel and KH2!Axel are not the same gets me to go, "... Bwah?"