fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2010 ]

[ SECRET POST #2010 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2010 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Panic! at the Disco/One Direction]

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03.

[Mad Men]

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04.

[My Princess]

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05.

[Questionable Content]

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06.

[NCIS]

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07.

[Okami]

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08.

[la brigade chimérique]

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09.

[Ally McBeal]

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10.

[SS Omega]

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11.

[Final Fantasy XIII]

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12.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

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13.

[Heroes]

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14.

[Salma Hayek and Cote De Pablo]

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15.

[True Love, "Holly's Class"]

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16.

[Star Trek TNG]

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17.

[Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core]

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18.

[Katawa Shoujo]

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19.

[US Women's Gymnastics]

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20.

[Legend of Korra]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm guessing farming society?

Nice call! Small farming society/sustenance living. (The factory farms and agribusinesses are another thing entirely.)

I'm not supposed to want to return to a life like this. There's a lot that's just not great. But it's pretty much all I've ever known, and the way I grew up is so far apart from the way most other people grew up, so I know what it feels like to be happy to find something that you knew being shown on widely-known media.

Seeing the Carnival was pretty amazing for me. The entire time, I kept going, "Yep, I've had that chore" (I got stuck on firepit digging a lot) or "Those look like our porches" and "Look, they have family breakfasts too" and even "Haha, they scam outsiders too". Even the way they dressed was familiar. I felt so homesick, it hurt.

I guessed from what Supernatural depicts and the reference to Oklahoma, that you meant small farming.

Yeah, people are shocked when I say I want to go home. Taking care of my family by digging the firepit, helping cook dinner, even telling fortunes like a bad stereotype to bring money in, I loved it. But it's like speaking another language to outsiders.

<3

I understand. I mean, when people think of where I come from/where I grew up, they think of backwater toothless yokels who drown kittens and fuck their related women-kin. (Not all untrue, but definitely not true for me.)

But what I missed the most was the bulk and warmth of my animals, and listening to crickets, and seeing fireflies. I missed helping my parents do chores, and missed sitting on the concrete steps of the milkhouse drinking tea, and watching the birds dip in and out of the trees and pastures.

There is just so much that people do not understand, and why it is I love it, and why you must love it, so much.

There's something else, too. There's a difference between "living" and "surviving". Most people go about living. The way I grew up was surviving. Some of it may have been bad, but it made the rest of it so much more beautiful, too.

People assume I'm going to be forcibly married off to a cousin (what is with the incest assumptions?), or that I have crazy religious superstitions (WTF, you think your god turns crackers to flesh, and I'm the weird one?), or, like someone up-thread assumed, that I have never interacted with the outside (Um, we have smartphones and wi-fi, I swear).

The first day at my mother's house, I woke up at dawn, like I'm supposed to, and remembered I was on breakfast rotation for the week. Someone else had to do my job. I had nothing to do. I cleaned the kitchen just to do something, and made breakfast for my mom (I will admit to that being the first time I have seen a microwave in person).

I miss the dawn, dragging my dead-to-the-world cousin out of bed to go help the other men, getting the little ones settled down for school, teaching the really little ones all the nursery rhymes so that they had their letters and the rhythm of words down before they started reading, helping cook, sitting down at the fire pit at night. Seeing all the towns on our rotation, going to the farmer's markets.

I miss my family so much, the safety, the love and comfort of them. The routine of it, of knowing I had purpose, that I was needed and wanted.

No one gets it. We're just backwards, crazy people who live like weirdos.

>I will admit to that being the first time I have seen a microwave in person

I had a lot of my firsts in college and my first "real" job, too. First time with cable TV (I grew up with a huge fucking antenna growing out on my house haha), first time taking a subway, first time on a plane, etc.

>The routine of it, of knowing I had purpose, that I was needed and wanted.

THIS. I swear, this alone is what mostly drives my job choices. Probably going to end up in the military because of it.

>I miss the dawn, dragging my dead-to-the-world cousin out of bed to go help the other men, getting the little ones settled down for school, teaching the really little ones all the nursery rhymes so that they had their letters and the rhythm of words down before they started reading, helping cook, sitting down at the fire pit at night. Seeing all the towns on our rotation, going to the farmer's markets.

I love this, let's swap some more.

I missed the sunsets of home; I live near a lake, and it sends up incredible colors. In all my time in the foreign country, there was not one sunset, just a gradual bleeding of light from the gray sky. I missed petting the soft bellies of semi-feral kittens. I missed the sweet smell of hay after it had been cut, and in the dusk, the latent heat comes baking from the fields, and the scent of hay.

>No one gets it. We're just backwards, crazy people who live like weirdos.

Dude, I wanna friend you so bad. Message me if you have a DW. I'm on LJ under the same username as well.

I was fascinated by the sight of a lava lamp. I had never seen one before, and it was so weird. (I still don't get their purpose) Running water in the house was so strange to me, since I was used to well water.

Every morning like clockwork: Get up. Grab water bottle. Bust into his caravan (or if it was nice out, find his bedroll). Pour water over head. "Get up, lazy ass. You've got work." "Whore, I hate you," (Kick him) "Get up now!" "Finnneeeeee" Is it crazy that I miss that?

Oh, what else is there? Fresh fruit. See, during the right seasons, the young guys will go get work on farms and orchards, and they always get sent home with a basket of whatever from the farm, because everyone knew us, and they knew we'd appreciate it. This one farm always sent the boys home with bread and the jam she had made last year. Nothing was better than apple jam on fresh bread. It was like this special treat for the little ones, and for us too. Another farm always sends home a basket of eggs, because they have all these farm birds. My cousin could make the best French toast in the world by waiting for the bread to get a little stale, and using those eggs.

I miss the little kids, crawling into my lap, begging for stories, because I always told the best stories. I still do. Climbing trees. One time, we found this great oak tree at where we were staying, and we made these totally make-shift swings on it. They were gone when we came back next year, but that was okay, because we just made more. My uncle totally put the kibosh on it though when two of my older cousins (not really cousins, but everyone is my "cousin" there), and one fell and busted his arm. The hospital bill was awful, and he couldn't work, so Uncle was frustrated beyond belief with us. He was just shouting "Why would this seem like a good idea? Did I raise a group of savages?" And we were just trying so hard not to laugh the whole time.

I miss everything. I miss the freedom of it all, leaving when we were bored, going somewhere else, far away. Seeing the land change before us. Mountains one week, ocean the next. Being so still all the time is killing me slowly, I swear.

I did not grow up in this kind of situation at all but I just want you two to know that your experiences are very fascinating and I loved reading these little sentimental tidbits. :D

What culture is this, anyways? I tried to look up "small farming" but I'm not really getting anything from a specific subculture, I think.

:D Glad you enjoyed it.

>What culture is this, anyways? I tried to look up "small farming" but I'm not really getting anything from a specific subculture, I think.

Well, for me this is rural Northeast dairy farming. Unfortunately, AFAIK there's been little to no study or documentation done on us, unless you're a Mennonite or Amish. I learned this the hard way, when I was in college, and the majority of my social sciences/anthropology professors waxed poetic about all sorts of cultures, but turned their noses up at the "hicks and rednecks" that lived around them. 8/

Dude, I'm an anthropologist and I would love to do a cultural study on your culture based on your descriptions. Familiarity breeds contempt, I guess. :/

Wow, I'm actually quite flattered that people are interested! I would love to have someone take a stab at experiencing the culture, rather than judging it for a change.

You lot are a little pushy when you're students in desperate need of a "fascinating" culture to do a long-term study on. Not in a rude way, more in a "okay, personal space please and thank you" way. I know none of them mean any harm. But my culture isn't supposed to reveal things to outsiders, not even the names of other family members, really. I couldn't tell them about any of our traditions, or beliefs. I think I was a great disappointment when all I would say is "Why do you think I have an arranged marriage? Why would I marry a cousin?" (I was genuinely confused) :(

Personally, I think more studies should be done on the farming communities. Not a lot of people get to live like that anymore, and they don't have restrictions on talking.

Well, that's one of my questions answered!

Maybe you should take some sociology courses and do a study on the dominant culture from your point of view. (I'm only half serious -- but I do think you'd make some fascinating observations.) You know why the restrictions on talking are there in you culture, but understanding the approaches of sociology (and how it's broken down a lot of stereotypes of other cultures) might give you some ideas about whether or not the restrictions on talking are contributing to the persistence of the stereotypes. You should also check out any books you can locate on your culture to see how accurate/inaccurate they are, so you can see what anyone who is genuinely trying to do their best when dealing with your culture already knows.

>I think I was a great disappointment when all I would say is "Why do you think I have an arranged marriage? Why would I marry a cousin?"

Ah man, the misconceptions. Now, I'm definitely no expert at all in your culture, but in these rural parts, we do get travellers, too. I think that a LOT of people conflate Romany, gypsies, and travellers. From what I've gathered, it's way more complex than what most people assume (which is just all itinerant folk = gypsies).

Most people in inter-urban, suburban areas, and middle class people have never come into contact with any sort of traveling folk before, so they just have these weird ass misconceptions.

Same way most people think I have like... chickens and pigs and goats and sheep along with my cows. And have lots of time to lounge in the fields. Or something.

The travelers that come round to these parts ask to clean out people's attics so they can sell the antiques that have been up there since they were new. XD

Or run scams on little old people by offering to "repave their driveway" and instead run black paint over it. :(

Which, I gotta say, is enterprising.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-06 18:46 (UTC) - Expand

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khronos_keeper - 2012-07-06 20:02 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 00:31 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-07-06 22:07 (UTC) - Expand

There is no purpose to lava lamps beyond "ooh, pretty nightlight".

Your life sounds like it was wonderful. The security of your family and your routines more than made up for the changes as you travelled and the hard work.

If it's any comfort at all, being terribly homesick for the life you had as a child/teen isn't uncommon. And it sounds like your uncle has set a criteria, which will get you back where you belong in time. When that happens, as an adult, you'll be better able to mediate between your culture and the "outside" people, than adults who never lived outside. Hopefully, that means you'll be able to ward off CPS when necessary, by knowing what criteria they're looking for and using the arguments and language which will convince them that the children of the group are safe and well cared for. (You might try researching homeschooling rules and laws in the states where you travel. There may be tests which the kids can take to show their school progress long before the GED. I'm pretty sure there are in Pennsylvania, at least.)

Good luck.

Yeah, CPS made us take all those tests, and truthfully, we're pretty careful. There's always at least one adult who is a certified teacher, and the rest make do. At the time though, my mother made some...interesting...allegations against my family, because she wanted custody. CPS had a few reasons to take us, or so they thought.

Interacting with the outside world on this level has made me more aware of how we're seen, and I think you're right in that I now know what it is they want to hear. I think I will be more useful than I ever was. At the same time though, it's also cemented the idea that we are "other" to most people. (Seriously, this is my culture, not a damn Halloween costume. That's so unbelievably rude)

Yeah, lava lamps. Don't get them. I'd never seen a blender or a toaster before either. Those were interesting.

Ah, Halloween costumes and stereotypes, and misconceptions... Yet another layer of complication in the world. I get a tiny taste of it in the way my profession gets stereotyped, but I'm not shy about using that stereotype to get what I might need, much the way you sold henna tattoos and fortunes to people who didn't very much about your culture.

At the same time, the stereotype can be harmful. In my case, it means that people assume I can't or won't do things I'm perfectly capable of. In your case it draws the interest of government agencies which are there to protect people who might never have help otherwise. I can't argue with the existence of CPS -- I've known too many children who really have been abused -- but the misconceptions are problematic when they cause official action.

Would teaching the sociology professors who teach the people who will become the social workers about your culture make a difference in the long run? I don't know. Would that level of interaction be seen as a kind of betrayal by the people in your culture? I don't know that either.

But I think you've chipped away at a few misconceptions just by being willing to respond to people here.

Interaction is...complicated. There's Rules, and I do mean Rules with a capital R. And then there are rules made for each group. My uncle doesn't mind some talking, he's more, I guess the word is liberal, about that kind of thing, moreso than my grandfather supposedly was. But I'm still not supposed to talk about the exact relations between my family and I (As in, who is actually my cousin, and who is this guy who joined us four years ago and is not actually related to any of us but I call him my cousin because it's much easier), I'm not supposed to name how many children we currently have or their ages, I'm not supposed to talk about our income, I'm not supposed to reveal our route, and I'm not supposed to tell outsiders about certain traditions and the like.

As for the fulfilling a stereotype, the more I interact with outsiders, the more I think maybe that's just making our lives harder in the long run. Being apart is our lifestyle, but we need some level of respect to make people like CPS see us as safe. I'm not sure anymore. However, if and when I go home, I'll probably fall right back into it, if we need some income. So I don't know.

>I'm not supposed to name how many children we currently have or their ages, I'm not supposed to talk about our income, I'm not supposed to reveal our route, and I'm not supposed to tell outsiders about certain traditions and the like.

Sorry to butt in, but this is fascinating. I see some of this mirrored in the more traditional, old fashioned people in my area. For us, it has something to do with superstitions and class?

I can't even explain it. Some of it has to do with being punished for drawing too much attention to yourself or your family and having misfortune brought down on you, and some of it has to do with just rules like it ain't classy to talk about how much you're getting per hundredweight for your milk.

But thank you for sharing and explaining to us some of your Rules, they're incredible.

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(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 00:45 (UTC) - Expand

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rabidsamfan - 2012-07-07 12:38 (UTC) - Expand

The Rules probably began for good reasons, but those reasons may not be as valid as they were once. I'm sure you've observed by now that when people don't have accurate data, they extrapolate from situations they think are similar (which is a fancy way of saying that they make shit up!), and that is probably why you're getting the marrying cousins and arranged marriages questions. Both are common in some other secretive or isolated communities which have had the lid torn off the top in recent years. (I'm thinking the polygamous Mormons and a couple of other cults, off the top of my head.)

You said that your group keeps at least one qualified teacher there -- what if you (or another person from your group) went ahead and studied sociology and became the qualified "social worker" of the group. Someone who could slip into the jargon of academia and soothe the fears/concerns of the social workers from the outside. (Here, look how we've covered Maslow's hierarchy of needs for our children!) It would be something to discuss with your uncle or whomever, I suppose. I can't see much of a way around the problem of not being able to say how many children and their ages, though. That kind of data is what makes agencies happy. (Do they all have the appropriate vaccinations, for example, might be one of the questions on the mind of a CPS person, and it's hard to say "all" when you don't know how many kids there are.)

The stereotype is problematic, I have to agree. But the most harmful aspects of it aren't the henna tattoos and fortune telling. Those are both fun, and pretty harmless. And even if the academic world gets a better idea of your culture, it would take a long time for that to filter down to where you couldn't raise income from those things. (If ever. I have a fading henna tattoo of Watson on my left arm as I type!) In any case, you have an opportunity now to learn things that may help when you take them back. I wish you very well.

>The routine of it, of knowing I had purpose, that I was needed and wanted.

THIS. I swear, this alone is what mostly drives my job choices. Probably going to end up in the military because of it.

I've been reading a bit lately about how destructive the lack of purpose in children's lives can be. It gets mentioned quite often on Scholastic Snake Oil - eg. here - and I just read this, too, which goes into the topic in depth.

Thanks for the links! Much obliged. It definitely explains a lot. :(

I kinda laughed when I read about the three year olds cutting grass and twigs with machetes. When I was seven, I carved a heart in a wooden pallet, with MOM in the center, with my tiny little pen knife. My parents' response was to take away my knife. But they gave me a Leatherman for my 20th birthday, so it was all good.

Awwwwww.

I have that weird dual experience here because I didn't do a lot of work before my mother died (mostly I just read books and roamed around outside), but by two years afterwards I was doing most of the household stuff, and I distinctly remember that when I moved away to college my feeling about living alone was 'thank god, now I only have to take care of one person rather than three.'

I hate this attitude. It's the same worldview that assumes it's ok to go and ruin the places where tribal peoples live because hey, they must *want* to go and live in cities and become accountants, right? That's progress.

Oh, trust me. We hate it too. Deeply. It's only worked for us for a couple thousand years, can't be at all a viable alternative. After all, it's not the way they live.

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