[ SECRET POST #2015 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2015 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #288.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

20. http://i.imgur.com/ABpzA.png

[anonymouslyyours]

I think I'm misunderstanding something. You feel dirty for buying an album? What are you doing with the album?!?

[(Anonymous)]

sex?

Are you OP?

[anonymouslyyours]

The language of the secret really makes it seem like the guilt is about *horrors* paying for the album?

nope

[(Anonymous)]

isn't it about being a bad internet pirate?

my dirty joke failed :(

Re: Are you OP?

[cleverthylacine]

A lot of the J-pop and K-pop boybands are produced by some seriously skeevy companies; allegations of extreme overwork, sexual abuse (the Johnnys franchise in Japan is notorious), and in Korea, religious harassment, are common.

[(Anonymous)]

It's okay, anon. I've paid for two of their albums.

[deadtree]

hmmm the only thing I can figure is that maybe this band is famously distasteful, like they're really racist or homophobic or something? That's the only reason I could think of for feeling dirty for paying for their album. But that's not really what I think it means..

[rhosyn_du]

Their fanclub is notorious for some really horrible shit, but as far as I know there's nothing more scandalous about the band than there is for any other kpop band.

[(Anonymous)]

iirc, the company behind them, SM, is known for giving really harsh contracts and frequently overworking their stars. One member of SJ even decided to cut and run citing harsh working conditions.

Perhaps OP feels bad about giving money to a possibly unethical company?

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

Their fanclub, ELF (ironically standing for Everlasting Friends), is notoriously one of the most hateful fan groups out there, even leading to another fans' suicide. As for the members themselves, some are known to be assholes. Leeteuk and Shindong have made sexist comments, and Siwon has made homophobic ones. IDK about other members, as I'm a casual fan.

...and yet I've bought their songs off of iTunes. They really are catchy, and some of the members are lovely, talented men (Kyuhyun ♥♥).

[anonymouslyyours]

Oh what! My little sister loves them! Does anyone have links?

[(Anonymous)]

OP

That's pretty much exactly it. Super Junior as a group creeps me out. They've publicly admitted in interviews about how they all basically hate each other and regularly have gotten into fistfights, along with what other people said about sexist and homophobic remarks.

Also, out of 13 original members, 2 of them were not Christian. South Korea is just short of 50% non-religious. One of the non-Christians, Heechul (who is also as gay as the day is long), made a tweet about how he doesn't like to listen to Siwon (the homophobic one) preaching about religion.

They just skeeve me.

[deadtree]

ouch. Okay then, I totally see what you mean.

Though Heechul sounds like a decent fellow-- he should feel like he has the right to stand up to homophobic bullshit whether it's his bandmate or not.
It's just not very professional to air it on twitter.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, Heechul isn't of course "gay", officially. It's one of those worst kept secrets sort of situations. Which makes the awkward Christian situation even more awkward.

For the most part Heechul is a pretty awesome guy. Also serving his military time at the moment!

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand a secret about spending hard earned dough on their new album, but I don't really get this.

[elaminator]

Man, you paid for an album? What are you, a unicorn?

But in all seriousness...that's nice of you. Why the hell would you feel guilty for it?

[cleverthylacine]

Because the company that produces them is notorious for abusing their talent. I don't even know which company it is, but I can't think of a production company in Japan or Korea that handles cute boy bands that isn't horrible.

[(Anonymous)]

well, WM Entertainment is ok. I've really appreciated how they've been managing B1A4.

SM and whatever those creepers are who run T-Ara into the ground are the worst.

[(Anonymous)]

I've paid for their concert~ :| and a concert DVD, posters.... The ridiculous price for the concert ticket did make me feel pretty dirty, yeah.

But yeah, I think most of the issues with them have been pointed out? General ignorance, especially in the ways of sexism, homophobia, fat-shaming.... Will I be attacked for contextualizing? I think it's not telling the whole story unless it's pointed out that the offensive opinions they've expressed were most likely the ones they saw all around them growing up (in a society whose revolutions for the rights of women, lgbt-spectrum folks, and others are more recent or only coming about now). I don't think that necessarily forgives the ignorance, but it does give me hope that there's room to grow and change.

SM Entertainment is infamous for mistreatment of artists - all of which is only rumored, as far as I know... hitting/beating artists, forced diets (to the point of malnutrition), driving artists to sickness because of exhaustion, pushing them through sickness (there's this video which is kinda blurry but has lead people to believe that Han Geng, an ex-member of SJ, was pushed to keep practicing even while coughing up blood), bigotry (forcing Han Geng to wear a mask while performing since he's Chinese), and general just... ugh... (I remember reading somewhere that SM monitors SNSD's periods?). Then there was SHINee's manager, who smacked a fan in the back of her head.

But you see the way SM attacks those who try to leave (Han Geng, JYJ), and it's understandable why more don't try to get out. They make money, they have a place to live, they're adored, their college education is paid for... and SM will do everything in their power to make it as hard as possible for anyone who leaves to have a career outside of SME.

... Or, ya know, the OP could just be like a really big YG stan and tells everyone they hate SM artists and it's as simple as that.

Or it's totally about pirating and "dirty" was just an odd word choice.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. Definitely not a YG fan. There's only one YG group I really like (Bigbang, and they're not my favorite). EXO is one of my faaaavorite groups and SHINee is growing on me.

While some of the SM practices are unsavory, I... don't really care about that. While the politics of it all can be really unpleasant, I care about the actual people and how they act and present themselves as entertainers. I really like Junsu, I try and make believe the other two don't exist (it's amazing how that whole hitting a fan thing has almost disappeared from the internet).

Emotional maturity is important to me. Knowing when to keep your mouth shut is important. I am sure a lot of different K-pop idols don't like homosexuality, but Siwon is one of the few who has actually gone out and said negative things about it. Most people are kind of awful in a lot of ways, but if you're an extremely public entertainer, you have to watch what comes out of your mouth.

Also, while I find ones like Shindong, Leeteuk and Siwon distasteful, it's the fact that they all basically hate each other that creeps me out the most. Most groups you can tell they have a real camaraderie with each other (like Bigbang, or B.A.P for a new group). Super Junior admits to having regular fights in their dormitories. And 'boys will be boys' is NEVER an excuse for physical violence.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Can't get into EXO for some reason, but SHINee are the ones who got me into kpop, so they always have a huge place in my heart.

To be honest, I've been out of the SuJu fandom for long enough that I'm not totally familiar with the group dynamics or... like... much that's gone on with them lately. This is the first I'm hearing about the fighting, but it makes me happy to be not as invested as I once was.

I totally agree with that. My stanning is generally directed towards 2PM now, but I wouldn't touch them with a 30-foot pole for a long time because I absolutely couldn't get past Junho's homophobic comments. At this point, I've learned to... uh... appreciate him, but homophobia is one of those things that's always gonna hit me in the no-nope-just-gonna-back-away-now spot. Despite that, I would like to believe that there's at least a chance that those bigoted views could be brought around~ :/

The camaraderie you're talking about is one of the things that has ended up making me love 2PM so much... and I'm sad that it isn't the same for SuJu (I do adore them, just from afar at this point~ >>). Then again, they - or any other group, for that matter - could just be hiding it better than SJ, I guess :|

[(Anonymous)]

Could you (or anyone else) point me to where they have actually stated that they hate eachother? Not saying I don't believe you, but I have never seen anything like that. Only that they've had fights, like normal people tend to do if they live on top of eachother for x years.

[dentedsky]

LMAO I know the feeling =| Ah well, it's a catchy song!

(I don't think Heechul is gay though, in reply to another comment of yours. He may be bi, but I thought it was pretty obvious he likes women.)

[outstretched]

Dear everyone who has no idea why OP feels bad about this, here are my two cents (at least):

• SM Entertainment is a skeevy, awful company, as previously noted. Yes.


• It's probably not related to SJ's fandom. Super Junior fandom can indeed be insane, but it's definitely not worse than some of the other ultra-crazy k-pop fangroups out there—at least we didn't put glue in an idol's drinking water, all right? Anyway, Super Junior =/= its fans, and most people are able to make that distinction. I side-eye a lot of what goes on in SJ fandom, but that doesn't mean I love the boys any less, and it's because I love them that I'd consider buying their albums? Here's a fascinating discussion of this topic (read part 3, especially).


• Besides the fact that SM is a skeevy, awful company, the main reason that I couldn't ever bring myself to buy an album (though I've gone to see them in concert, and was too excited to be ashamed) is because seriously, Super Junior's music can be pretty awful. Speaking for myself and many others, we didn't get into this musical group for the music (as weird as that sounds)—we got sucked in because of the members themselves, a lot of whom are amazing human beings in startlingly unexpected ways. Yes, even the ones who occasionally say terrible things. But...there's a difference between loving a group that also happens to make bad music sometimes, and having an album of that bad music on your shelf. That jump can sometimes be hard.

I also totally agree with the anon right above me who offered context. Context is really important, especially with a group that comes from a different culture, etc. :/

ANYWAY. Dear OP, as a fellow SuJu fangirl, this secret made me laugh and I feel you so hard. But if you had to buy an album, Sorry, Sorry was the one to buy!—it's their best album by far imo. My boyfriend bought me Bonamana as a present because I came into the fandom during 4jib, and after he listened to it, he's...never quite let me live it down ;_;. Sometimes he just starts doing the awkward chicken dance at me and I'm like STOPPPPP ;_;. I can't actually believe their new album exists—who was responsible for this nonsense?? The boys almost manage to save it because they're such professionals, but...there's just no saving this one, guys, I'm so sorry.


Disclaimer so that other SJ fans don't gut me: Obviously some people do like SJ's music (and even though 6jib is astoundingly strange, in my opinion, there are a lot of SJ songs that I do like, especially off of 3jib!). If you like SJ's music, more power to you! It's just...not always what lures people into the fandom and/or makes them stay, that's all. Also, I love Super Junior enough to make a fandom primer about them, so don't even start with me, okay. :/ And this tiny disclaimer is why this secret is indeed a secret, I think! Maybe! orz fandom is complicated. I'LL SHUT UP NOW.