[ SECRET POST #2022 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2022 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #289.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not really all that into the comics, but in the interest of spirited debate I'm going to take this opportunity to discuss some of the reasonings I've seen tossed about, quite possibly playing devil's advocate during.

Comic fans are gearing up for Civil War because it's the latest Big Deal in the fandom. It's caused enough wank, angst, and disbelief that, despite the opinions of people when they were reading it, PEOPLE ARE STILL DISCUSSING IT! People hear about it, get morbidly curious, think 'it can't be all *that* bad', AND THEN THEY BUY IT! Having such a memorable storyline just sitting there worries people because this way they don't have to try and come up with something new. The fact that it made no sense makes it worse, because people don't think they can rely on the idea of 'an IC Tony would never do that!' because he already did. In canon.

As for calling it a divorce, well...

Many people are of the opinion that Steve/Tony is subtextually canon. Many more just aknowledge that they wish it was. And, if you just describe it as 'there was some outside pressure, and person a started keeping important secrets. Then person b found out, and they started fighting. Really fighting. All of their friends had to pick sides and everything. There was no neutral ground, and everyone got hurt by it' it sounds EXACTLY like a bad breakup. So for people whose headcanons have them as married in all but name for the last ten comic book years, it's a divorce.

Plus, someone probably just described the arc as 'when Steve and Tony got divorced' and it stuck because it was apt. The feelings of betrayal, the arguments, the gathering of the troops, all of it. I think it's likely it was used dismissively first, then latched on to as the perfect descriptor.

As for it not being a break-up arc, I disagree. Regardless of the physical nature of their relationship, they are still best friends. They think very highly of each other, miss each other, and love being around the other. They try to support each other, they protect each other, the list really just goes on and on. That being said, I'm going to say it's canonical that they love each other. Not that they're IN LOVE or anything of that distinction, but they love each other. Civil War is yet another break up in their long, on-again, off-again relationship. It's probably the worst one, but that's besides the point. The point is that they had a very strong and important (to them) relationship that got absolutely wrecked. And that, be it married couple, lovers, or friends, is a break up.

(My personal opinion? MCU Tony would never side with the government like that, it's too soon to see what anyone else would do, and there aren't enough characters to have a Civil War. A gang war maybe, but so far we have six Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-men, and an announced Ant-Man movie. Including Wasp, we're looking at maybe two dozen non-villain metahumans. And I find descriptions of the Civil War as a Steve/Tony divorce almost painful. This was an arc that was hard on everyone and raised some interesting and important issues, regardless of the characterizations of the main players. I think it could make for some interesting character studies, world building, or debate if only people would stop either dismissing it or looking at it through tunnel-vision slash goggles.)

[(Anonymous)]

Regardless of the physical nature of their relationship, they are still best friends.

I thought Rhodey was Tony's best friend and Sam Wilson was Steve's.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

There's canon to support Steve and Sam being best friends, Steve and Tony, or Tony and Rhodey, depending on who's writing it and what time it's set in.

[luxshine]

I'm starting to assume that I missed a ton of Avengers comics where this supposed "Best friend" thing started. YEs, Tony and Steve are good friends, no one denies that. But the Best Friend place, the one that goes to hell and back for you and that you would die for... that's Rhodey for Tony and Sam for Steve.

[(Anonymous)]

Tony said Steve was his best friend in one of the comic books. I forgot which one.

[intrigueing]

*shrugs* comic book characters vacillate between best friends like metronomes, depending on who's writing and whether the story in question is from a solo series or a crossover or a team book.

IMO, Steve and Tony are technically just as good friends as Steve and Sam and Tony and Rhodey in terms of how much they love each other, but Tony+Rhodey and Steve+Sam are friends first and foremost. Steve and Tony are teammates first, friends second.

(Okay, how did I not realize until right now that both Tony and Steve have black best friends who they are never shipped with?)

[anonymouslyyours]

After the first Iron Man movie when fandom did not wet itself with Tony/Rhodey I admit I took that personal. Hard feelings are still had fandom, they are still had.

[intrigueing]

I hear you man. I'm not even a big slasher (friendship- and gen-fic is my fave), and even I was going "omg they're actually holding hands people are gonna go nuts over this!"

But nope. And they can't pull the "but they're such stable bffs there's no tension!" card on this particular pairing because it's full of bickering and annoyance and differences and disagreement and confusion and tension over massive changes. I'm sticking to the race card.

[anonymouslyyours]

Plus there are way more platonic friends that fangirls will slash to hell and back. And in the case of some well known brothers they will do so literally.

[(Anonymous)]

But the Best Friend place, the one that goes to hell and back for you and that you would die for... that's Rhodey for Tony and Sam for Steve.

Yeah, I think you must've missed a ton of them. Tony's died for Steve. Stopped his heart in Execute Program, breathed in deadly spores in Red Zone. He didn't think he'd make it out of either alive, and was explicitly in no personal danger both times until he took it on to save Steve. But honestly, they're superheroes. They'll die and go to hell and back to save a passer-by. That's why they're heroes.

Rhodey and Sam were originally designed to be, and very frequently act as, Tony and Steve's supporting cast. So when Tony and Steve are in their own books, their closest friends tend to be Rhodey and Sam. When they're in a team book together, Tony and Steve tend to be each others' closest friends. And different writers tend to write their favourite friendships/characters.

[(Anonymous)]

NA

Agreed. And also, idk about Sam but Rhodey has not had a big part in Iron Man canon since Volume 1m 80s 90s canon, until after the movie came out and he got brought back into the fold in a limited capacity. But the current run is Fraction, and well... I think that says all there is to it.

In comics canon, one could also say Happy has been as close if not closer to Tony than Rhodey for many years (before he died... ):

[brooms]

but so far we have six Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-men, and an announced Ant-Man movie.

the cinematic rights to the the x-men and the fantastic four (and daredevil) are owned by fox. marvel can't use them. or spider-man (belongs to sony/columbia).

it's odd that there are still people entrenched in avengers fandom who don't know this.

[luxshine]

The other day I had an argument with a guy who swore up and down that Hank Mccoy or Peter can join the Avengers for Avengers 2 because 'it makes sense' despite the fact that the studios are different... so, no, it does't surprise me.

[intrigueing]

....now you've just made me want to see Hank McCoy on the team. So bouncy and happy and all-around sunshiny even when terrible crap is happening to him.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah. I knew about Spider-Man, but not the others. That's why I didn't bring that up above. Honestly, I don't pay that much attention to what studios produce the movies I like. Or the actors, usually. I can (and have) said, halfway through a movie, "Oh, that guy looks familiar. Where have I seen him before?" And had my family/friends say, "Uh, that's (A-lister), and he's been in this, this, this, this, and this. And we own all of them. And you've seen all of them."

Okay, so our new Civil War cast is an in hiding Nick Fury, CA, and Thor vs. IM and Maria Hill, with the other three falling wherever the writers put them *rolls eyes*. If you thought the idea was bad before...

People's insistence that they're all one big, happy, cinematic universe makes me roll my eyes. They're kinda fun to poke at, though

[hllangel]

There's also the fact that it's canon that in an alternate universe, "Natasha" Stark marrying Steve prevented the civil war.

(Another reason why we probably won't get Civil War in MCU is the licensing. Marvel owns the Avengers MCU, but X-men and Spider Man are both owned by other studios. So it would take a lot of negotiating and probably a long time to actually merge all the marvel cinematic universes.)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm not sure people who think this will happen in the foreseeable future actually... read Civil War. There were tons of characters wrapped up in that Katamari of out-of-character douchebaggery and Marvel can't even use some of the most pivotal ones.

[terabient]

Katamari of out-of-character douchebaggery

A+ description, anon!