[ SECRET POST #2022 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2022 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #289.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[anonymouslyyours]

Thank you. I don't recognize Civil War Tony as Tony because he's OOC. Just because it's canon doesn't mean it fits with his previous characterization. Someone just wanted to play "what if we switch Capt. America and Ironman's POVs?" and it turned into a whole confusing, needlessly heartbreaking mess.

[luxshine]

The worst part is that Cap wouldn't have agreed with the Registration Act either! He didn't the first time it came up.

And that's not going into the fact that Civil War gave us One More Day.

[anonymouslyyours]

Oh, I agree with you about Cap I just meant that it seemed like someone wanted to play with Cap being the rebel and Tony being the government's golden boy and just failed all over the place with it.

[intrigueing]

No one would have agreed with Registration because most superheroes aren't idiots. It's been proven at least once a year since 1961 that if you want to make absolutely sure that your sensitive information ends up in the hands of Doctor Doom or Skrulls or Kree or the Masters of Evil or an evil corporate executive, hand it straight to the keepers of the top-secret files of the U.S. Government.

I have have lost count of how many times I've re-read my copy of Fantastic Four #336 for Reed Richards' epic issue-long character filibuster in front of the U.S. Senate about how Registration is a dumb idea and the government should feel dumb for thinking of it. While Sharon Ventura and the rest of the Fantastic Four casually beat up supervillains in the hallway behind him.

....

Dude, when exactly did comics stop being fun? Seriously, who wouldn't rather see Steve and Tony bickering over the best way to defeat a megalomaniacal tuxedo-wearing anthropomorphic dinosaur driving a tank armed with lasers down Park Avenue rather than beating each other up over ugly psuedo-political dystopian bullcrap that all ends up in broken Space Whale Aesops anyway?

[wauwy]

Dude, when exactly did comics stop being fun?

I think the Bush years in our own world had a great deal to do with this, tbh.

[wauwy]

YOU'D BETTER NOT GO INTO THAT FACT

UGH

UGH

DROWNING MY TEARS IN MY SWEET PERFECT ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN AND KEEPING THE DENIAL WALLS IN PLACE UNTIL THEY FIX THAT FUCKING SHIT

[intrigueing]

Hideous '90s artwork, but:

[insanenoodlyguy]

I saw it as his additive perosnality reasserting itself. Without alcohol, he became a control freak. But instead of control of self, he began trying to control everybody.

Mind you, that doesn't solve a lot of the story's crap, but I can see that part.

[anonymouslyyours]

That's an interesting theory and it gave me some pause but I just can't reconcile Tony with supporting the Registration Act. Or with wanting to control everyone with supporting the government controlling everyone. Though it's been a while since I read any of that and it might be cool to go back with a different perspective.

[intrigueing]

I don't see it at all. He had been dealing with his alcoholism for a long time before that and his struggle with his addiction was a redemptive and empowering aspect of his character. This is a interesting theory, but it's what would happen to a VILLAIN. Someone without Tony's moral fiber or strength of character.

[insanenoodlyguy]

... You do remember that he once used a satellite to fry peoples brains in order to keep his identity secret? Or the time he attacked everybody who might have possibly used any of his designs, ever? Including several people who it turned out didn't?

Tony off alcohol has not always had the best judgement. The best of intentions, but he's always tended towards a certain dark bent with that. I'm not saying my theory is perfect, but lets not make a paragon out of the hero who's always been fairly flawed.

[intrigueing]

Dude, not making a paragon. I'm saying he wouldn't do the things he did in Civil War no matter how big his problems were.

[(Anonymous)]

Huh? WTF does this even mean? Flawed people who do bad or morally questionable things automatically don't have the strength or morals to decide to not do other bad or morally questionable things? Especially stuff that's far, far worse? Supporting registration, becoming an outright fascist, and doing absolutely abominable things to achieve goals =/= paranoid overzealousness that shows off dark tendencies.

Also, I'm a little insulted you think Tony did those things because he was off alcohol. I'm not saying they weren't morally questionable and he didn't go kind of nuts carrying them out and people weren't justified in being pissed off at him for doing it, but he did those things because he was so hellbent on keeping people safe and making sure his identity/tech didn't wind up hurting anyone that he kinda lost sight of some of the moral considerations. But those weren't unforgivable things. They were bad, yes, but not even close to Civil War in scale or reasoning (they had admirable motives, for one, not "yes, somehow the fact that supervillains blew up a bunch of people means superheroes and mutants should be rounded up and tagged because...this will somehow prevent that stuff from happening — you say that makes no fucking sense? Lalala I can't hear you"), and with not even remotely the same motives. Plus, it makes no sense for his character even if you take all questions of morality out of it. If an amoral Tony from an alternate universe got all control-freak-ish and obsessive and went off the deep end, he'd be going off the deep end on the opposite end of the spectrum every single time.

Now, if he had done everything he did in Civil War solely because he had some reason to be terrified that the government had the intention and capability to start mowing down superheroes left and right if they didn't comply (and for some reason no one believed him when he told them this so he couldn't get them to help him fight back in a different way than Cap's moronic protest style), and had a secret back-up plan to undermine the SHRA once everyone was out of danger because he still thought registration was a terrible idea and that all the logic the government used to support it was ridiculous and dangerous...yeah then I could see him going a bit off the rails in terms of throwing people in prison/beating people up/etc in pursuit of that. But the thing about Civil War is that he was written to be honest about it. He actually believed those things.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I'd actually put "fry everybody's brains" above Civil War myself.

I never said it was because of being off alcohol, I said it was because of his additive personality, and it's turn towards control.

And you said the reason for this one too: Tony Stark will do morally questionable things because he's hellbent on keeping people save.

Tony had wanted to do it better, and he did in fact warn everybody it was coming cause he could see the trends. We did in fact see what happened if Gynch was running it instead.

[intrigueing]

Agreed. I can't even try to analyze his character if I take both his prior characterization and his Civil War-era characterization into account. There are other characters that have been horribly derailed, but whom I could still grit my teeth and analyze wholesale. Like Reed Richards — even though Civil War was infuriating wall-banging character derailment that insulted the readers' intelligence for him too, he still comes out the other side as a coherent character — he's just a disturbingly different character from who the decades of earlier comics insisted he was. But nothing makes sense if I try to analyze Tony, because every one of his characteristics was blatantly contradicted later on without any explanation, and then contradicted all over in the middle of everything, and then contradicted in a completely different way all over again after Civil War, so that the only explanation for it all becomes "a case of DID plus advanced insanity" or something.

Honestly, the Skrullified characters got the easiest way out by a wide margin out of everyone involved, and "lol they were Skrulls!" really ought to have been the explanation for everyone's behavior, cop-out though it was, because it's exactly what it felt like.