Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-07-25 06:50 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-07-25 06:50 pm
[ SECRET POST #2031 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2031 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 043 secrets from Secret Submission Post #290.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Good case for Steve
The focus should always be to make childbirth safer, but still, the chance of dying if childbirth in an industrial nation is extremely low.
Abortion to save the life of the mother is of course a completely different issue.
Re: Good case for Steve
(Anonymous) 2012-07-27 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)By the by, an intimate partner forcing a woman to become and remain pregnant is considered serious abuse -- it is called "reproductive abuse" and is one of the most common forms of intimate partner violence and abuse against women.
Further, the chance of dying in childbirth is not low in "industrialized nations." The US maternal mortality rate in 2008 was 24 in ever 100,000 births, which is considered very high. Since I assume by "industrialized nation" you mean "suitably wealthy Western English-speaking country" (because nearly all countries are "industrialized" these days, I mean, seriously), I will add that the US has the highest rate of maternal mortality of Western English-speaking countries, but other large, non-Western countries have even higher maternal mortality rates: In Russia it is 39 per 100,000 births; In China it is 38, in Mexico 85, in Indonesia 240, and in South Africa it is 410. It is hardly rare. Your citing the chance of dying in childbirth also ignores the extremely high risk of complications due to pregnancy and/or childbirth, which can seriously and severely effect the health of the woman and possibly kill her in the future.
Just so you know, you're advocating to kill, harm, torture, irrevocably injure women like me, AND you're incredibly ignorant about childbirth and pregnancy. So, uh, fuck you.
Signed,
A woman who would kill herself if she were forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth. Thanks for wanting me dead! <3
Re: Good case for Steve
If you are so scared of pregnancy that you would commit suicide, you need to seek counseling. It sounds as thought you might suffer from tokophobia. Nothing is ever worth killing yourself over.
I also hope that you have a partner who is considerate of you and would never put you at risk of becoming pregnant.
Sabotaging someone's contraception should be prosecuted as battery. Rape should be prosecuted severely. We should all work to make the health care in our respective countries better and available to women regardless of income.
However, to someone who belives a ZBEF is a valuable human being, it's impossible to support something that has a 100% mortality rate and that happens so very often. Which brings me back to my original point, you and the AYRT differs in how you view the ZBEF and that colors how you view the question. Pro-lifers look at the abortion statistics and literally see millions of dead people.
Although, it may make you feel better to know that even though the AYRT wants to make abortion illegal, not all pro-life people want that. All Our Lives is a good example of an organisation that seeks to stop abortion by changing hearts and minds and alleviating the root causes of abortion.
Have a great day and take care.
Forced pregnancy is not the same as pregnancy
(Anonymous) 2012-07-28 07:20 am (UTC)(link)A regular pregnancy isn't torture. Forced pregnancy is not the same thing. It can definitely be argued that forcing someone to undergo drastic physical changes cuminating in what is described as the most painful experience of one's life is indeed a form of violence.
It is generally not legal to physically prevent an adult from obtaining safe medical treatment that would prevent unwanted physical changes and pain. In fact, doing so in any other circumstance DOES count as torture and violence. For the same reason that imprisoning someone with a health condition and not allowing them medical treatment is also considered torture and an act of violence (recall that starving a prisoner is also the same - there doesn't have to be hitting -- depriving is also considered violence and torture in some circumstances. To use a silly example to make a point, if there were a law that prevented people from having some other medical procedure that prevented a great deal of pain and risk for moral reasons, then that would be institutional torture, done by society.
I understand that what complicates this is the issue, as you pointed out, of when separate life begins. So I'm not saying that my examples are exactly the same as the issue here. Obviously, this issue is way more complex than the examples above. I'm just saying that if someone does NOT want to be pregnant, it's not fair or accurate to tell someone that they can't think of forced pregnancy as torture. (If it clarifies, I think forced pregnancy is to pregnancy as rape is to sex --- NOT the same).
That said, I actually was not very aware that there were prominent pro-life groups who don't advocate for legal restrictions. It's a shame that groups like that don't get the attention of the larger groups, but thank you for bringing it up - that was very informative. I personally feel like the ethical issue is a complex one with many reasonable sides, but as to the legal aspect, I find that one side is much more fitting for a free society. So it's nice to hear that the ethical and legal issues are recognized as separate by people with many different perspectives.