fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2043 ]

[ SECRET POST #2043 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2043 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 083 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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as somebody who is fluent in japanese, i just want to say that i think you're hilarious for being rude over this. op is not trying to be a dick. and japanese grammar actually is quite simple. don't get me wrong, there are other things about the language that make it extremely difficult to learn, but grammar is not one of them. i got the gist of japanese grammar within the first month of studying it. english grammar is way, way more complex than japanese grammar.

also, i never thought to look for fic in japanese. what is that site, op?

I'm glad you find me hilarious. I'm also fluent in Japanese, and I strongly disagree that it is simple. Parts of it are, yes, because subject-verb agreement is not an issue like it is in English, and once you figure out the difference between a go-dan and ichi-dan verb, conjugation is never really an issue. But other aspects of the grammar and other facets of the language are very difficult and it's a lie to suggest otherwise.

well, we will just have to agree to disagree. granted, many of my bi-lingual professors are in agreement with me, so maybe you're just special. ;)

You don't have the argumental high ground here, snowflake. I have plenty of other multilingual students, scholars, and professors that would agree with me, but I don't like to bring them into arguments with people on the internet who make false appeals to authority. And any language where the subject of the sentence is typically largely inferred and can change from sentence to sentence within the same paragraph wouldn't typically be called "easy" as far as grammar is concerned.

like i said, we'll have to agree to disagree, special snowflake.

I don't think you're special, so I left off the modifier. I already know I'm not special.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/04/07/infographic-ranking-the-difficulty-of-different-languages-for-english-speakers/

Don't go posting things like this now that I've been so throughly pilloried for being an asshole in the court of F!S public opinion!

I do love that infographic, though.

hilariously, the infographic still doesn't say Japanese grammar is difficult.

Why do you keep on using that word? I don't think that word means what you think it means. Also, I've already detailed elsewhere why Japanese grammar is difficult using, gasp, actual examples like the dropped subject. That infographic is just some icing on the cake. What *are* they teaching in the schools there days?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-07 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

i absolutely give you that japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn for english speakers. i mean, i learned it; i know. but the subject here is japanese grammar, not japanese language as a whole. i think original anon is confused about that.

and as far as dropped subjects go (even though i wouldn't necessarily categorize that particular aspect of japanese under grammar), i had no problem with it at all, even in the beginning. so as another anon pointed out, 'difficult' is highly subjective.

I'm the original pissed off anon and the ayrt. I'm really not confused on that point. At all. And as someone who's spent a decade studying Japanese, several years living there, and is now considered fluent, I'm genuinely lol-ing at people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Also, yes, the subject thing falls under grammar (I'm genuinely curious as to why you wouldn't think it was), and while I'm glad that you've yet to encounter a situation where the lack of subject was confusing, I think you'd find it a problem if you ever delved into the literature in a meaningful way. The subject thing isn't the only thing difficult about the grammar, but it is a prime example. I just don't want you to think that's the *only* thing I think is difficult.

That the original OP doesn't find the switch from subject-verb-object to subject-object-verb hard doesn't mean that the language, and its grammar, isn't difficult. Suggesting otherwise is idiotic and I reserve the right to call out idiocy. Same thing goes for anyone who tries to tell me Mandarin Chinese doesn't have grammar. Or anyone else who makes sweeping claims that ignore the nuances and complexities of any language. Would I, as a native English speaker (important qualifier), claim that Spanish is easier than Japanese? Yes. Would I say Spanish is easy? No. As someone who's already learned Japanese, I find Korean much easier to pick up than some. But Korean isn't easy.

And yeah, I'm a asshole in the way I called OP out.

i really like all these assumptions that you've made about me and my experience with japanese, and that you think your own experience with it makes your opinion a truth. there is really no need for me to participate in this "discussion" any longer. education is wasted on you.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-07 05:34 (UTC) - Expand

Uh, the explanation is "because you have to memorize so many characters", this does not prove anything.

... Really? Reallllllly? An infographic that focuses on what daunts most people instead of listing everything? Shocking. And you're going to pick a fight with it.

Then what does it have to do with the discussion?

da

Idk, I would think difficulty is subjective. To say that everyone has to find it difficult is rather...silly.

True, because someone with familiarity of Korean is going to find Japanese grammar substantially less difficult to handle than the typical native English speaker. I'm not saying everyone has to find it difficult. But there's a large and key difference between saying "I find the basic Japanese grammar found in porn fics simple to understand" and saying "Japanese is simple." And that is where I take umbrage at the OP's claims.

Well no, most languages are difficult to learn. I understand getting mad at that part!

Though as someone who has taken a foreign language I wouldn't mind someone saying that they found one aspect to be simpler for them (b/c dang at all the things my classmates found difficult that I didn't and vice-versa).

Just a passerby note here:

Your lack of interpretation of OP's meaning in the secret, grabbing a connotation to put yourself in a pedestal and your silly butthurt behavior claiming your sacred japanese language cannot be simple enough to translate in a online translator tool for fanfic reading purposes is hilarious!

Congrats!

Happy to entertain!

I've got self-esteem coming out my butt, anon. It's not hurt, and I don't think Japanese is sacred. I just think it's dumb to call a language's grammar simple when it's not. It's a lie with which I shall not up put. Or something like that.

I'm glad the OP is reading in a different language. Or trying to. But I'm calling bullshit where I see it.

This thread could be so much better without you.

I know, right!? Too bad. But, let's be honest. It takes two (or more) to play and some of you lovely anons stepped up and decided to argue with me. What I originally said was that while I'm happy for the OP I also don't like how they said it. The rest of you turned this into something. *srs nod*

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