[ SECRET POST #2043 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2043 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 083 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[chanterofelegies]

I think you mean Catelyn.

I don't get how Catelyn is worse than Sandor in any way.

[(Anonymous)]

For starters, he doesn't judge children based on the infidelities of their parents.

[chanterofelegies]

No, he only kills them. And enjoys it.

Such a paragon of integrity.

[(Anonymous)]

He also wasn't gullible enough to trust Littlefinger and help jumpstart a war. There's that, I suppose.

[visp]

She didn't nearly rape a 12-year-old girl at knifepoint, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Saying that Sandor "enjoys" what he was ordered to by Joffrey is pushing it. If he "enjoyed" killing children then he wouldn't have been offended at being associated with Gregor killing Rhaegar's children.

[fauxkaren]

Bending, Ned pulled back the cloak, dreading the words he would have to find for Arya, but it was not Nymeria after all. It was the butcher’s boy, Mycah, his body covered in dried blood. He had been cut almost in half from shoulder to waist by some terrible blow struck from above.

“You rode him down,” Ned said.

The Hound’s eyes seemed to glitter through the steel of that hideous dog’s-head helm. “He ran.” He looked at Ned’s face and laughed. “But not very fast.”

Yeah. Sounds like he was real conflicted about it.

[(Anonymous)]

And he also got upset whenever Arya mentioned Mycah to him.

[chanterofelegies]

Because he was annoyed by it, not because he felt remorse.

[(Anonymous)]

You know this how?

[(Anonymous)]

I love Sandor's character, but c'mon, how can you be so blind to what's been written down?

[(Anonymous)]

So Sandor feels no qualms about following detestable orders. He laughed in the face of an enemy when he knew it would upset him.

Cat judges children for something they had no control over.

Let's agree that they're both horrible people.

[(Anonymous)]

...or we could just say that both are deeply flawed individuals? Like 99% of the characters?

[(Anonymous)]

Dunno. I can't find much likeable in either of them.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd be happy enough with that if I thought the majority of people who hated on Cat did so honestly based on who she is in the books. As of ADWD I very strongly dislike Tyrion, despite understanding why he is the way he is.

But they don't. They have a gut level reaction and just scream the words "bitch" and "child abuser" repeatedly instead of bothering to work out what's actually at play in Cat's character.

Cat's story is complicated, and her relationship with Jon can't be translated into a modern AU. Most people can't be arsed do the necessary interpretative work to engage with that.

I've met a couple of Cat haters who were willing to take the time to think through their opinions and support them diligently with arguments built from the text. I respect them and take their opinions on board when rethinking my own position. They're vastly outnumbered by the sexists, the black-and-white moralists, and the prickly Jon-fen.

[(Anonymous)]

Catelyn stans are always stressing that she was not obligated to love Jon. And they're right.

But guess what? That cuts both ways. The "prickly Jon-fen" are not obligated to love a character who wasn't kind to a character they do love. They have every right to dislike Catelyn because of how she made Jon feel. It's as valid a reason as any to dislike a character, and the prickly Cat-fen should learn to accept that.

[(Anonymous)]

Feeling a bit prickly there?

Didn't say you didn't have the right to dislike Cat. Didn't say anything close to that.

Did say that the majority of Cat haters never get further than that gut dislike and mount rationalisations for it based on spurious evidence and downright crappy textual analysis.

Shorter version - I don't resent your side for disliking my favourite. I dislike it for promoting shallow and inaccurate readings which are held together with bile, not logic.

[fauxkaren]

But he's scarred!!!! And troubled!

All crimes shall be forgiven in the name of our great Woobie Overlord.

[chanterofelegies]

Of course, how could I forget that?

[(Anonymous)]

These may be wasted words but...

Cat's problem with Jon isn't that Ned was unfaithful. I mean, she's human, so she's probably not immune to the sting of that, but it isn't her primary motivation.

Cat's problem with Jon is that he's a bastard being raised in the manner of a trueborn son and Ned won't explain to her what the hell Jon means to him, what he intends to do with Jon, and what the hell that means for their own kids' inheritance.

If you're going to hate Cat for being a bitch to Jon at least get it right as to why she's a bitch to Jon.