fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2046 ]

[ SECRET POST #2046 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - spam secret ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm writing a slash fic about two characters in a pretty abusive relationship. One character is NOT the villain — he's a dark!-ified version of a canon supporting protagonist (with a canon-compliant explanation for why he's dark!-ified in the first place).

But the thing is, I'm kind of writing them without the intent or message that the guy getting abused should get out. I'm kinda writing about how he'll take anything that gets dished out and still loves the abusive guy, and the abusive guy is meant to be sympathetic because the abuse is due to sci-fi-ish mental effects beyond his control.

However, my friend/sorta beta told me that what I was writing had unfortunate implications because I didn't make it clear that people who show this kind of behavior should be immediately dumped iRL, and was glorifying the act of letting your partner abuse you. And the thing is...well, the commenter is sort of right, I think, because it's supposed to be showing how the abused character will always stick by the abusive one no matter what and depicts him tenderly calming the abusive guy down after being hit and stuff and the abusive guy apologizing and then doing it again and all sorts of other stuff that would be problematic IRL.

But like I said — sci-fi-ish voodoo is partially the cause of the abuse so I don't think it's totally comparable to real life. I don't want to come off as a skeevy "true love means letting your partner abuse you" apologist in my fic, but making it all "you have to leave him for your own good" would really wreck the story. Also, I can't see the characters being that sensible.

So...what do you think I should do?

Put your thoughts of real life abuse in your author's notes and in bolding, add that life is not sci-fi and if you shouldn't try to imitate abused guy because in real life blah blah and then you explain why it's bad.

This!

I think it's your call, but I've read similar scifi type stories and they always left me really uncomfortable with the implications. But I do think that no matter the reasons - scifi-ish voodo or aliens or whatever - it's still going to come off as "if you really loved him you'd stick by him".

Personally, I dislike when fanfic gets preachy, and I don't try to press any particular viewpoint when I write. People who are aware that [whatever] is a problem, are generally able to understand that just because I write X being mean to Y doesn't mean I am advocating [whatever]. I feel like it's actually bad storytelling to take a side, when you should be objective and let the characters speak for themselves instead of parroting some political stance just to serve as a disclaimer.

SA

Okay, I kind of misread your post, so to clarify: you are writing as if the guy should get out of the relationship. Do you mean that the character thinks to himself, he needs to get out, or you the narrator are constructing the story in a way that points toward this message? Because the former is fine in my opinion, but the latter is when I start getting annoyed.

I think you misread:

"writing them without the intent or message that the guy getting abused should get out. I'm kinda writing about how he'll take anything that gets dished out and still loves the abusive guy, and the abusive guy is meant to be sympathetic..."

Oh good god. Yeah, I give up. Failing all over the place today.

OP here: er, are you talking to me? 'Cause there's another anon (I think?) replying to you who isn't me.

I'm not writing either, the fic doesn't really have a message about domestic abuse, which is what my friend was concerned about. It just has general angst and complicated feelings. To tell the truth, the fic's scope is bigger than that — it gets into other implications about the abusive guy trying to control his behavior in non-domestic situations too and kind of struggling with it and being kind of afraid of his mind playing tricks on him. There's this whole situation that makes it impossible to just deal with it openly and I would go into it in more detail if I could but I don't want to get recognizably specific.

Honestly? I think that, whatever you do, if it's written with the guy whose being abused obviously not leaving the person abusing him no matter what he does then it's going to come off as "True love means letting them abuse you/you'll stick with them if you love them". The truth is, at least to me, the *reason* the abuse is happening is pretty irrelevant to the fact that there is abuse happening and that the abused character should stay with them...despite the fact they're being abused.

Part of that is because there are still a lot of people with the mentality that, if you're being abused there must be *something* you're doing wrong, or, if you decide to leave the abuser, you 'must not really have loved them'...and this story hits far, far too close to supporting that.

OP

Hmm, I see what you're saying. Would it change things if the guy clearly decides that he will put up with it to a certain extent (somewhat far, because the story is not really meant to be populated by completely rational and cool-headed individuals) because of aforementioned voodoo, but decides he will leave if it goes too far?

Would it also help if I added some hints that he knows this is dangerous and would never put up with this shit if it weren't for the voodoo?

(I just want feedback, 'cause I know I'm a little wrapped up in the characters and I really don't want to come across as a creeper).

It's fine - and it's a perfectly legitimate thing to ask. It might make thing marginally better but...there would still be pretty big implications since he's still choosing to stay because, at the end of the day, he 'loves'* the other character.

Honestly, it's not exactly what the verse is like, so much as the fact that the abusive situation is being shown as 'okay' and even sympathetic as far as the actual abuse goes. The fact the abused character is sticking with him because he loves him, despite the fact he's being abused, is just as bad [and, in fact, adds to it]. *Those* are the parts that problematic, because they show - and support - real world mind sets towards abuse, and what's happening is something that several victims of abuse are told they should do [stick with their abusers if they really love them]. Setting boundaries doesn't take that way because the situation is already abusive, and the character is choosing to stay in that situation despite the abuse because he 'really loves' his abuser.

I'm not saying 'DON'T WRITE THIS' btw - I just want to point out the areas that are problematic in this, and explain why they are problematic [at least in my opinion.]

OP

Okay, that makes sense, but I'm not really trying to "show and support" or send a message or make an argument or anything about domestic abuse (honestly, the abuse is only part of the story anyway). I was just putting these characters into a behavior-modification situation that can pretty realistically occur in the 'verse I'm writing in and trying to write them reacting exactly how I think they would react — nasty dark implications and all. Because as much as I like the characters, I really cannot see them reacting to it the way a trained psychologist would urge them to, you know?

So, I dunno, I'd much rather make the narrative kind of implicitly point out how twisted the situation is to avoid it seeming like I'm advocating it or anything, rather than have the characters act OOC-ly textbook-strict about it and mess up the whole twisted morbid slippery-slope aspect of the story.

...It's not just the way a 'trained psychologist' would urge them to react - it's how most sane people [who don't follow the 'it must be your fault!' philosophy] would react.

Look, you have to remember that you gave us almost nothing to go on about the story's plot, and you asked 'Is this problematic?' I answered, and I explained why. That's it. I wasn't trying to convince you to write your story another way, but I also wasn't going to sugar coat the reasons that I saw. I apologize if it came off like I was - I admit, having been a survivor of some fairly intense abuse I do have some very strong views on the matter.

However, like I said in my last post - I'm not saying 'Don't write it' - I was answer you're question, and explaining why.

No no! Your opinions are very good and appreciate it, but I just wanted to emphasize that, you know, the message was really not even a factor in the story, the situation was, so I was just wondering how far it "too far." Like, what the line would be between understandable but not-really-healthy reactions that most people would have, and what's skeevy creepy shit.

I wanted to kind of bring up the various modifiers to the situation so I could ask questions in order to get your opinion, and then ask if the opinion would change because of this plot device or that plot device, so that I could understand what plot devices would make a difference, and which ones would be "nope, same thing". I just...I dunno, I really want all the different considerations to be raised so that I can take them into account while writing the fic so I don't accidentally imply something I didn't want to. I wasn't arguing with you, I just wanted to ask more questions and do more exploration, I guess, so that I could get someone else's perspective on how their perception of the situation would change.

da

you could always make the character doubt himself by having other characters point out how creepy it is and try to help only to be denied by the abused character

like, get into some seriously psychological mindfuck with the reader, so that they can see into the abused character's mind, but also get that vibe that "something ain't right here"

you have a beta-reader of some sort, right? ask them if you're doing it right when you enter the "something ain't right here" factor

Not all stories have to be cautionary tales. Not all stories have to be instruction manuals for how to survive real life nor do they have to be representative of the author's personal beliefs and opinions.. Pretty much any time anyone gets on their horse about how something wasn't made *~clear enough*~ my response is that they sbould come back once they've put their critical thinking cap on.

But if you're worried about it, authors-note your thoughts -- at the end, because nobody wants to read three paragraphs about how you really know abuse is bad before getting to your story.

+1000000

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2046 ]

Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)

Re: Is this problematic or not? (warning: mention of domestic abuse)