fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2054 ]

[ SECRET POST #2054 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2054 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tracy Beaker Returns/The Dumping Ground]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

23. [SPOILERS for Usagi Drop]

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24. [SPOILERS for Legend of Korra]

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25. [SPOILERS for XXXholic]

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26. [SPOILERS for Revenge]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

27. [WARNING for abuse and rape]

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28. [WARNING for rape]

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29. [WARNING for rape]

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[American Horror Story]

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[Sons of Anarchy]

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33. [WARNING for child abuse]

[08th MS Team]

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34. [WARNING for suicide]

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35. [WARNING for gore, animal abuse]

[American Psycho]

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36. [WARNING for incest]

[Chrono Crusade]

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37. [WARNING for underage]

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38. [WARNING for bullying/abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #293.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

i get the feeling you've never actually bothered trying to read any sj-related stuff outside of the shit riley and other idiot tumblrinas post

Are you saying Riley isn't a perfect example of a SJW?

DA

I've actually read a lot of SJ-related stuff. While there is some good stuff out there, the vast majority of it that gets passed around is bullshit like the peeps on SF_Drama post, or Melissa McEwan's shit.

Example of an ACTUAL social justice advocate: Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr.

Example of bullshitters: Melissa McEwan, SF_D

lql

there is a whole realm of people that care about sj stuff that aren't gandhi and mlk jr OR the tryhards at sf_d and manipulative-money-grubber melissa from shakesville

you're being simplistic to suggest it's just either or

Oh, I know that. I was just using really obvious examples to make a point. A lot of the stuff that gets the most widely circulated is stuff by the second group I described. Most people know about Gandhi and MLK, so that's why I used them as examples.

they're also not exactly the face of newer movements regarding sj stuff

soooooo

Then who would you suggest I use as example that has the same kind of name recognition?

I'm actually not trying to be obnoxious. The reason I used MLK and Gandhi was because pretty much everyone knows about them. For a lot of activists, people don't know who they are, so the whole comparison would have failed.

They're awesome examples. Today's SJW's desperately need to take a page out of MLK's and Ghandi's books. Those guys had class and fucking dignity.

Re: Different anon

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-18 00:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Different anon

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-19 01:10 (UTC) - Expand

From what I've seen, "Social Justice Warrior" is a sardonic term and refers specifically to people who are over-the-top or trolling. An example:

Barbara doesn't understand the social construction of gender, and as a result inadvertently says some offensive things regarding transgender people. Lisa says "fuck you" and tells her that she's ignorant -- but will not tell her why, because in her words, "that's not my job." Kelly comes in, supplies a link, and says, "read this, Barbara. It might help you to understand." Barbara follows the link, and begins to research the issue. She comes back and apologizes for her earlier comments. Lisa says, "nice backtracking, you cis cunt. Check your privilege and get the fuck out of here."

Lisa is a Social Justice Warrior. Kelly is an activist.

Exactly.

+100

This is awesome and accurate.

Sometimes I feel like many SJWs started off as simple activists who, instead of getting sincere apologies and understanding most of the time, got a "fuck you, I stand by what I said" or a smarmy "oh, sorry if you found a reason to be offended somehow" one too many times. So now they don't try to see if someone's worth talking to; they assume everyone's just an asshole from the gate. Misanthropy at its finest!

I think so many of them lost their way; where instead of being angry over an injustice and working to fix it, they have decided that to see out and attack every single thing related to race/gender/sexuality.

As for the "apology" thing, that bothers me too. Some SJW feel that if an apology is not worded enough to their liking it is somehow a "non apology."

Do you mind if I ask why "I'm sorry if you were offended" is considered a non apology? I honestly never understood that, in my mind if I said something boneheaded, my response would be "I'm sorry you were offended," or "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" and mean it sincerely.

I guess I don't understand how it is a "non apology" because when people come back with "that's not an apology" I kinda read it as "Even though you said you were sorry, I'm going to be petty and pissy and keep the argument going."

It kind of goes like this:

It puts the emphasis on the person being offended instead of you being the one to offend. It's like "I'm sorry you feel that way" but not acknowledging whether or not you realise that what you said was actually offensive. Like you wish you could change how they feel, not what you said. It sounds more like something you would say when someone else had offended them. (Like you said, "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" instead of "I'm sorry you were hurt")

Mind you, I think context DOES matter and I don't think every "I'm sorry you were offended" is a non-apology. Now if someone says "I'm sorry you were offended but that's just the way I think and I'm not going to change for some random internet stranger".... yeah, well.

Edited 2012-08-18 12:06 (UTC)

Thank you, that does make sense.

Cute icon btw.

Just like world_eater said, it's a phrase that denies one's own part in causing the offense. "I'm sorry you were offended" is like saying "I'm sorry it rained on you". A show of sympathy, perhaps, if not sarcastic, but not taking responsibility for any wrongdoing. "I'm sorry I caused you offense" or "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" is slightly better, though still subtly foisting focus onto the person offended.

Best apology, to me, is "I'm sorry I screwed up/behaved offensively/[insert specific act], it won't happen again". Acknowledges both the act and one's responsibility for it, without having to bow and scrape and renounce one's dignity. Variations on that combined with changed behavior in that space, or an attempt to mend or better understand whatever caused offense if possible, usually gets a positive response, in my experience. I have seen one or two people who keep being nasty despite that, but they can be safely ignored.

Online SJ types tend to be highly focused on the power and complexity of words. Unfortunately, no one online can read your mind or see your face, so the effort to use careful wording takes place of tone as a way of showing sincerity.

Sure. Except it's not about "the power and complexity of words" it's about reducing and censoring people for using non-offensive words, in a non-offensive context, because they want the Internet to only discourse in their English PC Newspeak, the irony of which seems to have escaped everyone -- are there foreign language SJWs?? THAT IS THE QUESTION.

And if not, maybe these codependent SJWs need to ask themselves why not.

(no subject)

darkmanifest - 2012-08-19 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-19 01:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

darkmanifest - 2012-08-19 01:48 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah. People start out naive and full of good will, have one too many bad experiences, turn bitter and start displaying behavior they actually abhor in other people. So sad.

They don't even seem aware that to observers they now look identical to the assholes they're fighting. Fine if they don't care, but it's not seeing it that gets me.

I would really agree with this. I think I've been pretty vocal in having a lot of problems with how the social justice atmosphere is on LJ and various communities, particularly in how it can treat people of the same group that don't necessarily agree or have had different experiences or such. No group is a monolith... but that's kinda another rant altogether.

I think I've been in various SJ related comms for, mm, close to 2 years now (wow, has it been that long!?). I have definitely seen some people start out being cheerful and helpful and offering links and explanations, to be met with further willful ignorance. And, well, it gets draining and depressing after awhile.

I have personally had enough people actually listen to me that I'm willing to whip out the handy links list, but I know that's not everyone's experience. It's also not anybody's responsibility, and sometimes I don't have the spoons to engage (but, granted, if I don't have the spoons, I don't generally comment at all).

There's a term called compassion fatigue that is perhaps relevant here. I think once you've dealt with enough bullshit, it gets to a point where you're just burnt-out and expecting the worst of people. Which, tbh, sucks from the perspective of someone who is trying to learn (because I've been there for stuff that doesn't apply to me personally), but having been there with GBLT and disability issues? Yeah. I can sympathize sometimes, especially if I've seen someone really go out of their way to try to help people and finally just snap.

Oh, compassion fatigue, that phrase makes a lot of sense, thank you. And yeah, nobody has the time or energy for people who fight you tooth and nail every step of the way towards empathy and knowledge that is freely available all over the internet, and then whine that nobody wants to be nice to them. I think the best tactic is, like you said, not to engage when you don't have the patience for that mess so that you don't end up with nothing left. But that sounds a little like silencing, and I've seen a few advocates who become so exhausted even with management that they pull away from speaking out entirely. And the jackasses keep hee-hawing.

Thank you for articulating this so well.

This, thank you.

+1000

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