fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2061 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2061 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Xena: Warrior Princess]

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02.

[tales of symphonia]

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03.

[The Girl From Tomorrow]

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04.

[Spyro the Dragon]

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05.

[Lamento -Beyond the Void-]

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06.

[Aidan Gillen]

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07.

[Skyrim]

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08.

[Touhou Project]

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09.

[Total Recall]

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10.

[Castle]

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11.

[Spyro the Dragon]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [SPOILERS for the Dark Knight Rises]

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13. [SPOILERS for Digimon 02]

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14. [SPOILERS for the Borgias]

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15. [SPOILERS for Tales of Symphonia]

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16. [SPOILERS for asoiaf/game of thrones]

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17. [SPOILERS for A Dance With Dragons]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

18. [WARNING for eating disorders]

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19. [WARNING for pedophilia, rape, child abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #294.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well in their defense, it can be used as a sexist tool. In and of itself it is just a label and tool but it can be abused for sexist means.

(Of course, I haven’t read the article so I can’t say specifically what they said is true or not.)

True, but IMO the base reason for a Mary Sue being a Mary Sue is that...

"They are practically perfect in every way and somehow get what they want with little to no consequences". (No offence to Mary Poppins. She's the only positive example).

But the article seems to avoid that issue and instead focuses on "Why do MEN always get what they want!? Why are power fantasies so bad!?"

...Because Mary Sues/Gary Stues are honestly boring, bring little to the plot and contribute next to nothing in the end?

To be fair, the article does bring up a good point: "How can a character be so feminine and triumph? She must be unrealistic, she must be badly written, because everyone knows it is impossible to be feminine and powerful. But the thing is you CAN be feminine and successful (My sisters alone are enough examples. I'm a guy BTW.) but the sheer amount of bad!works and true character derailment often outshine the good ones and that you have to search through the crap to find the diamond.

Oh and: And that’s why I don’t call characters Mary Sue anymore. There’s really nothing bad about a power fantasy or wish fulfillment. It’s what’s fiction’s about. If one of my characters is called a Sue, I’ll proudly say “yep”, because that must mean that she broke out of that box a female character is supposed to be in. So I’ll go and say it: I love me some Mary Sues.

There's nothing bad about that, but IMO if there is an OC in a story that contributes next to nothing whatsoever, I'm pulling out.

Sorry, this thing brings out my annoyance.

Edited 2012-08-25 01:13 (UTC)

I actually agree with you on everything you've said. I also admitted before to not reading the article because I wasn't going to argue its merits.

I think Mary Sue/Gary Stus are poor characters and are a helpful identifying label for a failing in writing.

I was merely saying the label can be used in a sexist way, normally applying to characters that do not actually fit the description you just wrote.

So do I think that is a poor article? Yes. Do I Think Mary Sue/Gary Stus are a good label to have to identify bad writing? Yes. Do I think the label is abused and can be used to reinforce sexist ideas? Yes. Is that always the case? Of course not.

So I'm not really sure what we're arguing about.

It's just that the article seems to unintentionally/or-not? veer into the sexism thing. I know that sexism is wrong and the terms can be abused, but...

Have you ever seen a large porcelain doll? It looks pretty with the clothes and frills, but there's just something a bit off about it; about how the way the skin is too white or the cheeks to rosy or that you imagine it looking around when nobody's looking....

That's how I felt about the article. Something just seems off about it.

EDIT: I just realized why the article sounds a bit off! Suppose say a writer writes a bad fanfic featuring a real-Mary-Sue, and yet when people ask him/her about it, they would say "Your just SEXIST."

Also, with the words "Mary-Sue", "Sexism" and "Feminism" flying around, fanfiction writers would have to invent another term for badly written characters and the last thing I want on top of this is a wank war on fanfic terminology.

Edited 2012-08-25 12:41 (UTC)

So it sounds like a bad article.

I'm not advocating getting rid of the term Mary Sue/Gary Stu. As I said, it's a useful label. Heck, I use it. I just said it has the potential to be misused.

But many terms and labels have the potential to be abused for one reason or another. It's just how things are.

So again, we agree, so I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about.

[ SECRET POST #2061 ]

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