fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2071 ]

[ SECRET POST #2071 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2071 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Important: I'm really sorry about this, but I accidentally misclicked and deleted the submission post from last week instead of saving it. Managed to save the first page (25) of secrets, but the rest (about 100 or so) are gone.

If you submitted something last week (Aug 26-Sept 1), please resubmit it here.

The submissions post for next week is below as usual.

Secrets Left to Post: ?? pages, ??? secrets from Secret Submission Post #296.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

maybe they wanted to include loki but the photo set needed an even number of photos to look good so they had to get rid of one of the avengers.

it's a photo set on tumblr, it's not a big deal.

It is kind of a big deal, because you can't just dump one of the Avengers for no reason without everyone noticing and throwing off the dynamic.

And if they need an even number, they can always put in a placeholder image. Not very hard to crop a "A" logo out of google images or something.

lol, it's a photo set on tumblr, no it's not a big deal.

lol of course it's not some big RL issue, but you can surely see why the idea of dumping one member (and JUST one member...and the only woman...and not a hanger-on or someone whose story arc separates her from the rest of them) of a team would annoy some people in fandom and make them wonder what the poster was thinking.

Doesn't Clint get left out a lot too?

Yeah, which is also really annoying.

So if Natasha isn't the only one it happens to, why does it have to be because she's a woman?

(no subject)

intrigueing - 2012-09-03 22:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2012-09-04 05:59 (UTC) - Expand

It's cause they are off banging, obviously!

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2012-09-04 05:59 (UTC) - Expand

She wasn't quite a part of the "dynamic" like everyone else was, regardless of how you feel about her or "women empowerment" or whatever, she just didn't have the same flow and sense of importance as everyone else. Not her fault necessarily, but it was how she was presented.

LOL, are you serious? She had far more screentime than Hawkeye and was far more integrated into the group than Hawkeye and Thor, and possibly more integrated than Bruce, who only made a connection with Tony until near the end of the film. In fact, she and Steve were probably the lynchpins that held the group together. She was a member of SHIELD who had already made Tony's acquaintance and therefore was in the unique position of being in an in-between area between the two groups until Clint was de-brainwashed.

She was responsible for recruiting Bruce, directing all the Avengers who had no idea what was expected of them or what the Helicarrier was, providing almost all of Hawkeye's characterization and backstory, tricking Loki into revealing his plans, de-brainwashing Hawkeye, and closing the portal and oh yeah saving the entire frickin' world. Narratively, her redemption backstory and move from detached agent to active team-member was one of the major character arcs of the film.

The film would not have been remotely the same without her, and she was not more separate or different from the others than anyone else was, although all six of them were isolated and unstable, as the council said. If you had said this about Thor or Hawkeye, I would disagree but still understand the line of logic from where you were coming from, but Natasha? She was one of the central figures of the movie, story-wise and event-wise.

Look, if you don't like Natasha, that's perfectly understandable. She's not exactly the most endearing or charming character in the film, and it's perfectly fine for her personality to not rub you the right way. Heck, she's not at the top of my list of favorite characters either, even though I love all the characters in the movie. But do not say that she wasn't as important as the others, or that she wasn't a big part of the dynamic and flow. Because it's patently, objectively untrue.

If there was a way to 'Like' comments on DW, I'd like the hell out of this one.

Is your icon Rarity high-fiving Scrooge McDuck?

(no subject)

insanenoodlyguy - 2012-09-04 00:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

ex_mek82 - 2012-09-04 02:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

greenvelvetcake - 2012-09-04 02:39 (UTC) - Expand

LET ME LOVE YOU

+goldstar

Perfect comment is perfect.

Screen time does not equal quality. She was there with her cleavage and tight black outfits to drag in viewers, not as a key member of the team. She's a sex symbol. Any of her "important" points in the film could have been easily taken over by another character, whereas, let's say we tried to take out Thor or Hulk and have her take over their important plot points....not gonna happen. I wish people wouldn't see this issue for more than what it is, it isn't an attack on feminism or any such thing, I swear I've never seen so much butthurt in all my life.

*stares*

*tries to speak*

*stares again*

You're shitting me. You cannot fucking be serious. You're gonna judge a character by whether or not somehow, some way, another character could have maybe managed to do the same things she did, even if having them do it would be utterly jarring, come out of nowhere, have absolutely no meaning or emotional depth, rely on completely bullshit epiphanies, stretch the characters' shared duties to suspension-of-disbelief-breaking thinness, require buttloads of exposition, leave the plot aimless and stagnant, and not fit into their character arcs at all? Nuh uh.

You know, by your logic Steve didn't "need" to be there at all, because it's remotely possible that one of the others could've taken up leadership duty (no they couldn't, no one could, but you apparently think anyone could've tricked Loki too). Tony didn't need to be there at all because it's remotely possible that Thor could've flown the nuke into space and some SHIELD technician could've talked him through the engine restart (no he couldn't, he was busy and that makes no sense, but apparently you think anyone could have been free to de-brainwash Hawkeye too) -- he could've been chilling in his tower until Loki busted in, killed him, and hijacked the arc reactor. Banner didn't have to be there at all because Tony could have handwaved himself the ability to track the tesseract and Thor could've been the muscle the Hulk provided (no he couldn't, that's too much for him, but apparently according to you, Steve could've somehow gone to close the portal with no backup and no Clint to cover him). Never mind that this kind of shit would cause the whole movie to turn into an unrecognizable mess. And never mind that she was crucial to Hawkeye's entire character too, btw.

Don't make me laugh. No, she wasn't as plot-crucial as Thor. Yes, they could have completely rewritten the plot and reshuffled all the events in the movie so that Black Widow wasn't needed, but if they plucked her right out? Everything would have collapsed on itself, just like everyone would've collapsed if any of the other five, even Hawkeye, were just plucked out. Newsflash: a character doesn't have to be the protagonist to be worthwhile. Nothing whatsoever to do with feminism. I'd be just as pissed if you had deemed any of the other characters pointless, but you wouldn't have, would you?

I swear I've never seen so much butthurt in all my life.

I've never seen such stupidity.

Have you actually seen the movie, or did you just jack off to poorly rendered gifsets instead?

intrigueing covers the important stuff but I just want to point out that if you think that Natasha is the only "sex symbol" on the team, you need to take a seat and then look long and hard at all the loving slow pans of the mens' bodies that we get, and all the naked male muscles constantly on center stage. Because yeah IT'S A LOT. I am tired of people saying that because ScarJo's suit is unzipped a couple inches and her pants are tight that she's just eye candy. Did we not all experience the glory of Steve's ass jiggling in 3D and Thor's arms being bare for absolutely no logical reason for 90% of the movie? ._o

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-04 06:06 (UTC) - Expand

Of all the characters you could use as an example of hard to replace if taken out, you picked Thor... Wow. Okay. Thor is the second-least important member of the team in terms of plot role, character development, and team dynamics, and the only reason why he isn't the least important is because Hawkeye spends half of the movie brainwashed.

I swear I've never seen so much butthurt in all my life.

And I swear, I've never seen so much blatant point-missing and stupidity that wasn't either trolling or a neckbeard with delusions of grandeur. Which one are you, then?

Anyway, let's take the Hulk out. What does Banner do - gamma expert? Tony catches up to him in just a night of study, there's no reason he couldn't have done it, *and* anyway Tony figured out where Loki was going all by his lonesome anyway. Hulk caught Tony when he was falling, eh Thor can fly, he could have done that. What else did Hulk do?

Thor - he talked pretty with Loki, but did he do anything else? Failing to think of it, tbh.

Clint - Completely replaceable by any random SHIELD grunt.

Natasha - Brings Bruce in, provides all of Clint's bg, un-brainwashes him, tells Cap what's what, CLOSES the FUCKING portal yadda yadda, so much stuff already summarized by other excellent commenters.

The fact that you saw the movie, and actually came out of it thinking that Natasha's role amounted to just easily replaceable eye-candy who wasn't a key member, says a lot about you, tbh. And none of it good, sad to say.

(no subject)

intrigueing - 2012-09-04 05:48 (UTC) - Expand

Are you kidding me? If anyone didn't fit into the dynamic, it's Hawkeye.

Best. Reaction. EVER.

Clint was more important/flowed more with the group than Natasha?

Really?

You're grasping at straws anon

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