fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2071 ]

[ SECRET POST #2071 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2071 ⌋

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So, I've only recently been introduced to the idea that there is more than straight, bi, gay in the sexuality spectrum and I'm just wondering what is the practical difference between bisexuality, pansexuality and demisexuality? I apologise if this is offensive but I'm curious to know how people who are bi/pan/demi/etc would differentiate themselves and how they came to know their sexuality.

I'll give it a shot based on what I've gleaned from other people and everyone can feel free to correct me

I think that the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality is that bisexuals are often defined as just being attracted to males and females while pansexuals say they are also attracted to people outside of the gender binary. That's generally the distinction I've seen anyway.

Demisexuals say they are unable to feel sexual attraction to someone unless they know them very well first (which seems like it could apply to a whole lot of people anyway but wtf do I know). Someone else feel free to elaborate on this one.

bisexuals are often defined as just being attracted to males and females while pansexuals say they are also attracted to people outside of the gender binary

I had literally never heard this definition before a couple of months ago, especially with people going further and saying that bisexual people are definitionally not attracted to trans* people, and it makes me uncomfortable because that's not at all what I mean when I say I'm bisexual. The distinction as I'd always heard it is that bisexuals are attracted to people of multiple genders and that pansexuals define their attraction as being gender-blind. Which in practice amounts to the same thing mostly, but the thought process is different.

This.

Doesn't anybody wank over a perception that the "pansexual" term as opposed to "bisexual" means that trans people aren't REALLY the men or women they identify as? And does anyone who identifies as bisexual ever rule out trans people?

I also find "demisexual" a rather problematic concept, as I'm fairly sure that nobody, straight, gay, bi, pan, whatever would say that they DON'T "love the person".

Edited 2012-09-04 07:40 (UTC)

Doesn't anybody wank over a perception that the "pansexual" term as opposed to "bisexual" means that trans people aren't REALLY the men or women they identify as? And does anyone who identifies as bisexual ever rule out trans people?

I'm not sure if there's wank about it (probably somewhere?) but I can kind of understand where they're coming from if there is. Trans man = man, trans woman = woman. Which is still two genders. Obviously some people feel like neither men or women, and I guess in that case a term that includes people outside the binary is helpful, but I don't see where "bi" doesn't include trans people.

And yeah, I have issues with demisexuality as a concept as well. I'm pretty sure there are a ton of people (maybe even most people? at least that aren't only into casual sex) that feel the way demisexuals do. I don't know that it really needs a separate word.

I see "pan" as a bit broader than "bi" - "bi" is well known and the general conception of the word as the layman understands it is someone who likes both cismale and cisfemale people. When someone says they are bisexual, they aren't necessarily attracted to ftm/mtf/agender/neutrois/genderqueer/et cetera as well, though of course some are; when people identify as pansexual I feel it's safer to assume they are aware of the noncis parts of the gender spectrum and are open to those as well.

Demisexuality is on a different scale entirely between sexual and asexual. Asexual people, in general, have no interest in engaging in sex with other people, while sexual people generally have an interest in engaging in sex with people of whatever group they're attracted to though of course this doesn't mean they screw anyone and everyone in the group.

Demisexuality is somewhere between that where attraction only happens when a close emotional bond is also present; they generally don't do one-night-stands and don't find celebrities like actors or singers "sexy" as there's no personal emotional bond with them, but may feel sexual attraction to the person they're in relationship with. For demisexual people there's no such thing as "only sex" or "friends with benefits" and sexual attraction without emotional attachment doesn't happen.

This is all as far as I know, anyway.

in practise people tend to use bi and pan pretty much interchangeably. technically i'd consider pan a bit broader - persoanally i call myself bi because i'm attracted to both binary genders (which -and i don't feel i should have to say this but apparently some people think otherwise- includes people who are trans to one of those genders) but i don't see myself in a relationship with someone elsewhere on the gender spectrum. but it's pretty common for someone attracted to men and women to id as pan, or for someone attracted to any gender to id as bi; there aren't widely used standardised definitions.

demi is a much less established sort of identity, and it's nothing to do with genders anyway.

'and i don't feel i should have to say this but apparently some people think otherwise'

Think about how many people out there in the world aren't even aware non-cis people exist. On the internet in fandom which is *usually* a very progressive group, if you mention 'cis' people will get what you mean, but unless you live in a very, very, *very* liberal area? people will take 'bisexual' to mean you like cismen and ciswomen. That's unfortunately just how it is.

what is cis?

mental gender matching physical gender. cis = "not trans"

thank you :)

I haven't exactly made a study of this and don't identify this way myself, but from what I've been able to glean, "demisexual" means "unable to feel sexual attraction unless one has formed an emotional attachment to/gotten to know the person well first" (with no reference to gender). At least, I think that's what it's supposed mean based on what people seem to be going for - with emphasis on the "unable."

Unfortunately, there seems to be some Special Snowflaking going on with demisexuality that has lead people to mock it for appropriating language like "coming out" and making gross generalizations about how all straight-/gay-/bi-identified people think and feel (and crossing the line into slut-shaming in the process). I think the problem arises from trying to contrast demisexuality with hetero-, homo-, and bisexuality instead of placing it on the sexual-asexual spectrum. A demisexual person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex (when enough of an emotional attachment has occurred) and only the opposite sex is by definition also heterosexual. He or she is just different than heterosexual people who are capable of feeling sexually attracted to people they aren't close to, just as being capable of sexual attraction at all makes him or her different than hetero-romantic asexual people. That's how I see it, at least.

Note that if you ask 100 different people for these definitions, you'll get 100 different answers. Here's my take.

Pansexuality is the capacity to be attracted to anyone regardless of gender. This does not mean a pansexual person is attracted to anyone, just that gender is not a factor in who they're attracted to. This is a term that does not have much currency in the general populace.

Bisexuality is the capacity to be attracted to both men and women. However, people differ on what this actually means. Some bisexual people are attracted solely to cismen and ciswomen. Others can be attracted to transmen and transwomen as well, but not other types of genders (e.g. they may not be attracted to people who identify as androgynous, genderqueer, third gender, etc.). And some bisexual people are what most of us would call pansexual, in that they can be attracted to people of any gender, including genders outside the male/female binary; however, because the term "pansexual" is of limited currency outside of certain arenas, they use the term "bisexual" so that their sexual orientations are easily understood by the general public without having to explain themselves and the differences between bisexuality and pansexuality.

Demisexuality is another animal altogether. It generally refers to people who have a capacity for sexual attraction only when there is an emotional component present as well. In other words, they won't run into some attractive person at a bar and think, "I'd sleep with that person," or think that an actor is sexy. Without some kind of emotional attachment, demisexual people aren't sexually attracted to people. Demisexuality gives no indication of the genders of the people involved; demisexuality is found in all types of sexual orientations.

I think the widely accepted definition for bi has always been "attracted to men and women" while pan also includes people that don't fit under male or female (since bi means two and therefore means you're only attracted to two genders). Recently I read an article written by someone who identifies as bi and they were making the argument that pan wasn't any more inclusive than bi, because by their definition, the groups included in bi were "the same gender as me" and "not the same gender as me" and the latter group included every other possible gender than the author's. It was a definition of bi I'd never heard before, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

Demisexuality is on a completely different scale, and I've usually seen it described as someone who can only be sexually attracted to someone after they've formed an emotional connection. Technically, I don't think it's an orientation since it says nothing about the gender(s) someone is attracted to and every definition of "sexual orientation" I can think of that I've seen includes gender. In a Cartesian grid, it would be on the same axis as sexual and asexual while hetero/homo/bi/pan would on the other one. All that said, I'm not entirely convinced demisexuality needs a word. I would argue that a lot of people feel that way, or at least enough that it's not uncommon enough to need a separate label (like, for example, asexual, which is usually estimated to be 1% of people, which I think is rare enough that having a separate term is useful).

I think the widely accepted definition for bi has always been "attracted to men and women" while pan also includes people that don't fit under male or female (since bi means two and therefore means you're only attracted to two genders).

I think this argument is bullshit myself, a classic case of relying too much on etymology and ignoring what bi/pan people have written about ourselves since the 1980s.

ayrt

I agree. I should've made it clear that I didn't actually agree with that definition, just that it seems to be the "standard" one as far as I've seen. The definitions of a lot of words have evolved over time and you can't always go on etymology alone in deciphering the meaning of something.

bi/pan: Circa 1995, alternative adjectives for describing the overlapping things. Circa 2012, a shibboleth to wank over. I'll use "bi" with people who understand the Kinsey scale, and "queer" otherwise.

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[ SECRET POST #2071 ]

Question on sexuality- bi/pan/demi

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