fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2071 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2071 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Important: I'm really sorry about this, but I accidentally misclicked and deleted the submission post from last week instead of saving it. Managed to save the first page (25) of secrets, but the rest (about 100 or so) are gone.

If you submitted something last week (Aug 26-Sept 1), please resubmit it here.

The submissions post for next week is below as usual.

Secrets Left to Post: ?? pages, ??? secrets from Secret Submission Post #296.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

This comment is super gross and sexist. Way to demean a well-crafted female character into just tits and ass under the guise of pointing out sexism because you're butthurt people don't agree with you.

She WAS a well-written female character. I'm not saying she was never objectified, but honestly she wasn't half as objectified as other women in similar film roles have been. She WAS utilized in the plot a lot. You could remove Bruce from the film and it would still work. You could remove Thor (despite the Loki connection). You could CERTAINLY remove Clint. Don't act like the story couldn't be rewritten to be told without ANY of the Avengers gone (even Cap or Iron Man), because it totally could be.

Edited 2012-09-04 02:48 (UTC)

THANK YOU. This is exactly what I said! Except more scathing.

lol her first scene she was sweaty and tied up in a chair with her shirt hanging open.

And Steve's first scene was his sweaty ass.

Hey, did you know something funny? If a woman is sexy and the camera pays a lot of attention to that, it doesn't magically destroy her character. It's annoying and distracting if it's too gratuitous, but it's actually possible for a character to be awesome in spite of being blatantly sexy. Especially if casting the appearance of sexiness is kind of a big part of how the character operates. Did you know that?

Also, see, I could go back and count how many times all the super-tight, thin clothing allowed the camera to lovingly pan over and lingeringly center a shot on Steve's chest and ass, Thor's arms and entire torso, Clint's arms and ass, and Bruce's completely-naked-except-for-that-one-bit-of-rubble body. And then I could add to that all the lovingly-lit close-ups of Tony's jet-black mustache and hair and huge anime eyes with eyelashes that make me want to go buy better mascara, or Loki striding around in gleaming archaic robes and elegant suits or lying whimpering on the floor. And then I could try and pinpoint all the times I've seen all of the above constantly flexing every muscle in their bodies, standing in the middle of the room with their tree-trunk-sized arms crossed and their thick golden hair cascading around their faces like a Pantene Pro-V commercial, pummeling punching bags in order to let us mentally calculate exactly how hard their glutes are, doing insane acrobatics that show off their bodies from every angle, striding around in long black leather coats, pulling back bowstrings, walking around with their sleeves rolled up and collars undone, getting filthy and sweaty and bloody, being throttled and thrown around, or deciding that human porn isn't enough and what we really need is some shiny badass armor sculpted to one's body.

But I think that would be too tiresome and take way too long. It would take a lot shorter to just try and count the times the camera and costume department decided it would be a crime if it didn't allow viewers to notice that Natasha has a great rack and is really flexible. So forgive me for not being distracted enough by Natasha's admittedly-excellent boobage and killer thighs, when the plot was good enough that I managed to follow it, and the acting was good enough that I managed to sympathize with and love all the male characters, even with every single fucking distracting thing described in the previous paragraphs flying around onscreen.

(P.S. I really, really enjoyed writing these paragraphs, jsyk. In fact, I may have paused and closed my eyes for a few seconds here and there. Okay, several times. And yet I still think all those guys were great characters. Weird huh?)

Also, see, I could go back and count how many times all the super-tight, thin clothing allowed the camera to lovingly pan over and lingeringly center a shot on Steve's chest and ass, Thor's arms and entire torso, Clint's arms and ass, and Bruce's completely-naked-except-for-that-one-bit-of-rubble body. And then I could add to that all the lovingly-lit close-ups of Tony's jet-black mustache and hair and huge anime eyes with eyelashes that make me want to go buy better mascara, or Loki striding around in gleaming archaic robes and elegant suits or lying whimpering on the floor. And then I could try and pinpoint all the times I've seen all of the above constantly flexing every muscle in their bodies, standing in the middle of the room with their tree-trunk-sized arms crossed and their thick golden hair cascading around their faces like a Pantene Pro-V commercial, pummeling punching bags in order to let us mentally calculate exactly how hard their glutes are, doing insane acrobatics that show off their bodies from every angle, striding around in long black leather coats, pulling back bowstrings, walking around with their sleeves rolled up and collars undone, getting filthy and sweaty and bloody, being throttled and thrown around, or deciding that human porn isn't enough and what we really need is some shiny badass armor sculpted to one's body.

....
fucking UNF.
wait a minute for me to wipe my drool up and I might come up with something more coherent

Wasn't she wearing a dress?

...I'm sorry, you do realize that this is the movie that introduced us to Captain America with a slow, lingering, dollying-in shot of his ass, right?

ScarJo's hotness being paid attention to does not miraculously transform Natasha into irrelevant T&A any more than Chris Evans' hotness being paid attention to transforms Steve into a useless pretty-boy.

THIS. But I'm used to the double-bind of people holding female characters up to ridiculous standards and raising the bar up and up and up every time an awesome female character comes along until they suddenly switch to screeching "Mary-Sue!" with no room in between.

Also, maybe I'm just easily distracted, but I actually didn't see a whole lot of gratuitous objectification. I mean, obviously there was that super-gorgeous but totally plot-relevant badass sequence of her in that little black dress and stockings beating up those goons (which was waaaaaaaayyy too sexily awesome and stunning to the point of making me question my heterosexuality to ever criticize), but after that, her physical objectification seemed pretty much at the same level of Cap's and Thor's and Clint's.

Seriously, you could remove Thor or Clint a LOT more easily than you could remove Natasha. Being able to remove a character and cover their role with others is just kind of something that ends up happening when you have a main cast as large as The Avengers has.
There was also way less gratuitous fanservice involving her than I was expecting.
Related to that- In almost any other action movie, a character like her would've been stuck with the tired femme-fatale/sexuality-as-a-weapon cliche. It was really refreshing to see a manipulative female spy in a spandex bodysuit in fiction who actually didn't do that.

You could remove Bruce from the film and it would still work

But you shouldn't, because Bruce is the best! ♥

And there's nothing wrong with that! Nothing wrong with including characters just because they're AWESOME. And Bruce certainly had sub-plots and was part of the overall dynamic. Which they ALL were. That's what defines "OVERALL" dynamic. BW is part of what made the movie what it was, whether you like it or not. You don't have to like her but for fuck's sake don't just dismiss her...

This comment is super gross and sexist. Way to demean a well-crafted female character into just tits and ass under the guise of pointing out sexism because you're butthurt people don't agree with you.

ITA. Sexism dressing up as feminist critique. Fandom business as usual.

[ SECRET POST #2071 ]

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