Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-09-11 06:42 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-09-11 06:42 pm
[ SECRET POST #2079 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2079 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
__________________________________________________
10.
__________________________________________________
11.
__________________________________________________
12.
__________________________________________________
13.
__________________________________________________
14.
__________________________________________________
15.
__________________________________________________
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 057 secrets from Secret Submission Post #297.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-09-12 01:41 am (UTC)(link)Oooh, burn.
no subject
no subject
I'm curious as to how that works. Different ways to sign words or phrases? I don't sign, so enlighten me.
no subject
Certain words are just different. For example, Canadian ASL and US ASL sign "USA" differently. The english equivalent would be how people on the east coast of the US call carbonated soft drinks "Pop" while the west coast calls it "Soda".
Other times you will get a sign that is similar but slightly different. An example of this would be the word "deaf". The citation form* is a pointed finger tapping the ear and then tapping the mouth. Two "slang" forms exist. One is a reversal where you touch the mouth first and then the ear. The other is two taps on the cheek. A somewhat equivalent is how in British english you would pronounce the word "aluminium" while in American english you would pronounce it "aluminum".
Also, people just tend to use certain vocabulary in certain areas more. The older people in Kentucky are more likely to sign "neat" when expressing a positive acknowledgment. The younger people in California are more likely to sign "cool". In english you could think of this as how old people are more likely to use words like "Department store" instead of "mall".
New signers, normally hearing people, are clunky and slow in their signing, which could be associated with someone who is learning english for the first time.
This doesn't even take into account the small language revolution that is currently going on. Words are changing very quickly because many people in ASL want to disassociate themselves from SEE so that they may be seen as a legitimate language, which is an uphill battle. This also doesn't cover minorities suck as African Americans or the LGBT community who are not only making new signs but have their own signs for thing. They have their own accents, if you will.
Sorry if I rambled on you a bit. I took sociolinguistics in sign languages to it's a topic I'm fond of.
*Meaning what you would find if you looked it up in a manual/dictionary.
no subject
no subject
You're welcome.
If you, or anyone else, have any other questions about it I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.
no subject
As someone who mostly uses SEE I can find it difficult to understand the way ASL signers structure their sentences even though we mostly use the same signs. I don't know if this counts as "accent" but ASL user's are much more dependent on exaggerated facial expressions to convey a speaker's emotion or tone while ASL does not and employs lip-reading to a greater extent.
I'd also like to add there are sometimes tiny differences in hand placement while fingerspelling from region to region.
Here in Texas we tend to sign slower and have looser hand gestures while my mother's friends from New York tend to sign crisper and quicker, sometimes eliminate words, tuck their elbows in, and sometimes combine signs that are often used together.
Locally there is a family who speaks/signs Spanish as a first language and there is a definitely a noticeable accent in how they form their signs.
I've noticed there is definitely regional and even family oriented slang. I'm not sure why but the local deaf community where I live in tx (both SEE and ASL) point over their shoulders to sign "outside" instead of the traditional sign. Here we also just mime a person walking with our index and middle finger. People from California tend to use three fingers on both hands to imitate feet. And some people from Connecticut just used their whole hands to imitate feet.
Oh, and there is some controversy over offensive and stereotypical signs used for minorities and such but that isn't really something I'm confident in discussing. I use the updated signs and that's about as involved as I am with that.
no subject
I think, however, I can help clear up the SEE vs. ASL and whether it's an accent thing. Technically the two are separate languages but there is a huge amount of crossover. Hence why ASL is having its language revolution.
ASL came about first. Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, an American, brought over a deaf LSF teacher from France named Laurent Clerc to teach American deaf children sign language. They founded a school in 1817. Laurent Clerc altered LSF, its signs, to make it more understandable for American children. Then, once the school was founded they realized a lot of the children practiced home sign. Home sign was signing the families had invented on their own to help communicate with their children. Many of these signs were adopted.
Later, Alexander Graham Bell pushed ASL into being an underground language by pushing oralism and spreading the idea that signed languages were actually harmful to creating fulfilling lives for deaf people. He was also very into eugenics and didn't like deaf people marrying each other. AGB is a very... controversial figure in deaf culture. Mention him with caution if you ever do. Anyway, this underground nature of ASL caused it to change even more.
(The next part I talk about SEE. Let me know if I get anything wrong. My knowledge of it is limited.)
Fast forward a few decades. This is about the time SEE comes along. It was created in 1972. It was based on english but used ASL signs. Hence why the two languages have very different grammatical structures. The two languages divide themselves further because SEE will use things like adding -ING to the end of words, an english suffix. ASL never uses english suffixes. Also SEE tends to use signs like "Butter" + "Fly" to say "Butterfly" while ASL has one sign for butterfly. I have also seen SEE use "Grave" + "Y" to say "gravy" where in ASL you would fingerspell the whole word.
Many people saw SEE as a language forced upon them by hearing people and not their natural language which lead to a resurgence of ASL. Unfortunately, these bitter feelings have led to a bit of infighting among the deaf community. I don't have enough information on this infighting because I seriously wanted to steer clear of it as a hearing person. It's really not my place.
Anyway, now both ASL and SEE are taught but I think ASL is currently taught more in schools.
So, the two are separate languages but have a lot of crossover.
(As for the offensive signs and minorities, I only feel confident in discussing LGBT signs because that's what I know most about. Are there other controversial signs? Besides the one for Africa, which I thought was settled?)
no subject
I knew a little of this history but it's really nice to see it laid out this way. The division between ASL and SEE is something I have not been familiar with as my mother has sort of cut ties with most aspects of deaf culture for a while now. I've been doing a little googling and I'm clearly out of the loop as my exposure was quite a while ago and limited to my mother who is high-functioning & SEE and even then tended to have high-functioning friends who used SEE or some combination of SEE & ASL. So far I haven't had too many problems with understanding ASL users if I focus. Mostly the missing words and different sentence structures just make me have to pay a little more attention. This is actually pretty interesting and has made me consider taking an ASL class to try and get a handle on the differences.
I am a little confused as I've never seen a SEE signer add ing to a sign unless they were fingerspelling the whole word? And as far as I've seen SEE uses one sign for butterfly and gravy and I've never seen anything like using a similarly spelled word and adding a letter. That may just be a regional thing or just my unique exposure as well?
I can say that in CA & TX ASL is taught dominantly in schools.
I as well stay out of the infighting as a good deal of the hardcore "deafies" don't even like the fact that my mother will brought hearing children into their community spaces so I know first hand how very strongly none of that is my business.
Controversial signs I know of include (not limited to) Jew/Jesuit, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Native-American. And there are some... issues about some deaf people believing they should be allowed to use the sign equivalent of the n-word. I don't know too much about that though.
no subject
I think facial expression differences could be considered an accent. I know that many facial cues that used to exist have been dropped in ASL. Now it's more about tone. However, there are a few facial cues left. For example, pulling your eyebrows together or raising them depending on if you're asking a yes/no question or any other type of question.
I can understand SEE most of the time. Unless they sign really fast. I saw this speed signer once who knew SEE. It was amazing and terrifying all at once. I did not know hands could move that fast.
If you're interested in taking up ASL I would have to recommend getting into their poetry. It's really beautiful.
Really? Well, I saw the -ING thing on a documentary so it's quite possible it's no longer in use or it's a regional thing. The butterfly and gravy example came from my ASL teacher who was heavily in the deaf community, went to conferences, did a bunch of research, you get the picture. She knew basic SEE. She was old. (I'm not sure how much. Her face looked 30 but she had white hair.) So it might be outdated.
Oh wow, I've never encountered that. The deaf community in my area is huge and very open to inviting hearing people who want to learn. They just think that hearing people shouldn't be allowed to make rules over deaf people or "for their own good" which I've never heard anyone argue against.
Oh yeah, I remember the Chinese and Japanese switch. My teachers taught me the signs so they could say, "Never use them! They are racist! So use these instead." And then they taught me the new signs. I haven't heard of the others. I hope I'm not using the racist versions. I did hear about the n-word thing but thought it was a very small group of individuals.
I remember having to teach a friend the proper etiquette for using LGBT signs since she's in that community. It was a bit nerve-wracking for her since she has a poor memory and the differences between the nice way to say lesbian and the offensive way are very similar.
no subject
I had completely forgotten about the old sign for lesbian! I only saw that version once when I was very young and it must have completely flew over my head and I never thought about it until you brought it up and just... wow.
As far as I know the offensive signs are Jew (miming a hooked nose) & Native American (patting hand over open mouth). I'm kind of blanking on others (I know there are a few that don't concern nationalities?) as I don't use them and only had them explained once when I was very young. I don't think most of them are in common usage anymore except for older people and some deafies who are trying to "reclaim their signs".
no subject
Aha, in SEE are you actually allowed to sign gay? Because where I'm from the only polite way to say it is to fingerspell it.
I think I might know the offensive one for Jew. I should go look up the non-offensive version. The only offensive one I know that doesn't directly concern ethnicity would be the sign for Africa. There were a LOT of them and quite a few were very offensive. So they changed the sign to look like the continent. Now people complain the sign looks like a vagina. *headdesk* Yeah, I wouldn't say they're too common.
no subject
In SEE around here most people just made the sign for A and say the word Africa to be lip-read or fingerspell it to avoid the drama.
I'm definitely open to recommendations for poets if you have favorites. Thank you!
no subject
Wow! That's so different!
Um, I really liked:
Clayton Valli
Debbie Rennie
Ella Mae Lentz
Dorothy Miles
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I hope you like them.
just caught that mistake and cannot edit
That last part should be
"while SEE does not and employs lip-reading to a greater extent."