fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2089 ]

[ SECRET POST #2089 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2089 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Slender Man]

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[TGWTG]

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[Twin Peaks]

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[Jojo's Bizarre Adventure]

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[Journey Into Mystery]

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[Ferris Bueller's Day Off]

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[Transonic (X-men)]

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[Baldur's Gate]

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[Wanted]

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[Tiger & Bunny]

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[Bionicle]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #298.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Still wtf-ing over Coulson. I walked out of the movie not even remembering his name. Checked out AO3 and was like, who the fuck is Coulson?

Did you watch the Iron Man movies and Thor? (He also had two shorts.) So people got attached to him over a long period.

Actually, yes. He just didn't make any kind of impression on me.

Huh, that's interesting. He really popped out at me in the first Iron Man movie.

What do you think they could have done to make you care about the character more?

IDK. Made him one of the superheros and given him the power to shoot lightning bolts from his hands? Or had a more interesting actor play him. He was really dull looking. Call me petty, but make them pretty or make them hideous, just don't make them ordinary if you want me to notice the character.

He's a side character. I mean, I know he was used as motivation in Avengers by people who suddenly cared about him a lot once he was dead, but that felt super weird. I was all...okay, that Shield agent acquaintance of Tony's is dead, I bet Tony will be kind of sad, and then Boom, His death is super important. It felt awkward as hell.

Oh, I understand where you're coming from.

Eh, people other than Tony caring made sense to me. The only person it wouldn't make sense for was Banner and in the movie I never got the feeling Banner was avenging Coulson so it worked for me.

But I can see an audience member not having the same attachments most of the characters did.

I could see Steve feeling a bit bad about it, because guilt trip hello!, but not really as bad as they showed him being. Mostly I was pretty weirded out by the whole thing, and how unnecessary it was, and the tone felt completely wrong. Dunno what it was. Only part of the movie where I was like, this rings falser than a three dollar bill. Come on.

The scene resonated with me but I do admit at the time I felt it was cheap when I first saw it.

Then again, I think most death scenes are cheap.

However, after my initial "cheap" reaction I thought it fit well into the overall story.

For me it was because IDK how many other people had just died, but we were concerned with just this one. This single, important guy who's name I kept forgetting.

Why didn't they just go with "57 men and women just died because Loki is a dickhead. You saved five hundred more by working together. Incidentally, Loki is targeting New York.."

I find that a common thing in a lot of stories so I tend to let it pass. It goes along with the feelings of when you look on the news at night and you find "X many people died when occurred." You feel bad for those people. It's sad. However, for most people they feel much more strongly when a close loved one dies, such as a family member or best friend.

You'd think they would feel worse for the X amount because more people were lost but that's not how it works. It's more about previous emotional investment in the dead subject.

This is not always the case, of course, but it happens often enough that it's reflected in our stories.

(Of course, I feel targeting New York or those already lost people could have been used as the primary motivator, but more attention would have had to been paid to them.)

Edited 2012-09-22 02:50 (UTC)

Because that'd be a terrible, shitty, boring movie that no one would care about. And it wasn't that "a whole bunch of people died but we only care about this one", it was "a whole bunch of people died, including him, and a whole bunch of people are gonna die just like him if we don't work together".

Putting a face on a multitude of nameless victims by having one person to represent them is one of the single oldest narrative tropes in existence.

Well, in fairness going '57 men and women [that you probably don't know' just died' doesn't usually have anywhere near the same impact on people that saying 'This person [that you all have known to some extent] just died fighting to prevent Loki from escaping. Now are you going to stop him before someone else dies trying to do your job?' because people just don't respond as strongly to things that don't personally effect them. Someone you know dying because you weren't doing your job is definetly more of an effect than 'X NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF THIS GUY'.

What I raised a little more of an eyebrow was how well they had the team getting along at the end, considering just how much they'd been fighting before that.

I'm kind of laughing at how differently different people's minds can interpret things, because that was one of the most sincere and cruelly believable moments in the whole film for me, tone and execution and the way the scene was turned and the retroactive inevitability and all, and it had far more to do with the other characters' reactions than with Coulson.

Like for me personally? It immediately clicked in my mind that this was all the heroes' fault and they all know it, and their stunned horror (especially Tony visibly losing his grip and becoming pretty hysterical about the idea that this could be a war where soldiers die) at the realization of what their bickering and thoughtlessness was costing everyone and how much responsibility was on their shoulders was so palpable it was actually painful for me. With Steve especially, because...it's Steve. He's a leader. He feels responsible for everything. So when he looked at the cards, I immediately thought that he must be thinking that this totally random inconspicuous guy who Steve didn't know at all had apparently thought Steve was a hero had believed in him and had been looking up to the guy on the cards, and that Steve had totally failed to live up to that because now that random guy was dead on his watch and apparently should never have believed in him at all. And with Tony because of all his earlier unconcerned joking with him, and the fact that my mind jumped to Yinsen approximately three seconds later...

Yet I can totally see why all of that would fall completely flat if the viewer didn't make the same connections I did, or if they didn't know or like Coulson. It's just...a mindscrew to think about, y'know? It's not at all a "omg you're stupid for not getting it" ~~like I would say to people who think Black Widow was useless~~, it's just...so weird that some people saw that scene so much differently than I and a whole load of other people did.

But I'm sure there were scenes that fell flat to me and which really rang true to other people? I can't think of any scenes I really disliked in the Avengers, but there are probably some in the solo films...

Lol. It happens. That explains a lot to me, though. I figured other people were just skimming over that incredibly awkward scene (to me), and I was like...yeah. Coulson. You do that, people.

That makes way more sense to me.

Ooh, I'm glad my brain made sense! :D Sometimes it's hard for me to translate my brain-gasms to intelligible words.

And...yeah sorry for babbling 'cause you probably weren't asking for it, but I personally get bothered if I don't like a scene, or a character, or a plot development in a show/book/movie I otherwise like. The first thing I always do when confronted with something in canon I don't like or don't get is to run out and ask people who did like it or did get it to explain it to me so I can get it too.

Now, if the explanation is too stupid or unconvincing or detached from reality...well, I can accept that maybe this is a thing I just don't like, but I'd always prefer to be convinced to like something rather than dislike it.

I had pretty much the same reaction as oro - he just wasn't that much of a personality. Yes, he was there - and he was...just kind of never had that much personality. He was either 'BAD GUY STEALING RESEARCH - THAT TURNS OUT TO BE NICE/GOOD' or 'THE GUY KEEPING AN EYE ON TONY [for a short amount of time]'. In neither role was he really that interesting to me, and it wasn't until they showed something that was entirely unrelated to his job [fanboying the Cap'n] did I get even remotely interested in him - and well. The Avengers wasn't exactly the best place to find out more about most of the main characters, much less a side character.

[I haven't seen the shorts, so they have no impact on how I feel about him, really.]

I think peoples' attitudes towards him depends a lot on whether you saw the solo movies first and/or recently.

I saw them first. Still didn't know who he was.

Huh *shrugs* well, it's not like he was meant to be a major character anyway, fandom just...did something weird that I don't quite understand.

Yeah. Was kind of commenting on how damn bizarre it was that the side character became fandom's darling.

*mildly butt-hurt Thor fan*

Oooh, you too? Yayyy! *butthurt-Thor-fan-fistbump* :D Always great to meet an ally.

The lack of Coulson-love might've made me sad a few months ago, but I think I've nearly ascended the ladder into this fandom's IDGAF blissful fandom nirvana, just like with Harry Potter and ATLA and Doctor Who.

God, I love that point! Took forever to reach it with Naruto, but I powered through, and now I could not care less. :)

And it's more failing to see his relevance than hate, if that helps. A hint of jealousy--why isn't MY favorite loved more, damnit?--but mostly apathy and lack of understanding.

Hah, I'm still totally capable of getting all psyched about the film and willing to argue with you about that (see the thread above), but nowadays (unlike, say, back in May when I was busy puking rainbows everywhere) I have no rage or frustration or disgust attached to it. It's more like "you saw it differently? That's so cool! How did you see it differently than me? See, I saw it this way and I thought that was awesome, I wonder what went through your mind to make you see it that way? See, this is what went through MY mind, can you tell me more? This is fascinating!" and so on and so forth.

Okay, a few things still make me have a snitfit, but it's only been...five months. Give me time :D

Eh, I'm not perfect either. That stupid ass Naruto head-canon that many missions for female ninja are basically prostitution makes me rage in entirely unhealthy ways. Because, hello canon that managed to avoid that trope and have women be useful in a fight, fuck you fandom that took that away and made them only useful for sex.

I rage even though it's a valid thought/fan-theory if carried out well (it never is because it sucks hairy balls through a straw, but hey, other people can have opinions).

And I'd have rage fits over anyone who tried to devalue Black Widow or Thor.

...Basically fandom easily fills me with intense rage.

BUT I'M NOT RAGING RIGHT NOW. Now I'm just talking about stuff. And you did actually make me understand the Coulson thing better, so maybe I'll like him better now. I probably need to rewatch the movie a couple dozen times, you know?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2089 ]

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