fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2096 ]

[ SECRET POST #2096 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2096 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04. http://i.imgur.com/KENos.png
[True Blood; sort of porny, illustrated ... choking and spanking or something?]

__________________________________________________

05.

[Koi Kaze; Freefall]

__________________________________________________

06.

[Suits]

__________________________________________________

07.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]

__________________________________________________

12. [SPOILERS for A Song of Ice and Fire]

__________________________________________________

13. [SPOILERS for the Stand]

__________________________________________________

14. [SPOILERS for Teen Wolf]

__________________________________________________

15. [SPOILERS for Shin Megami Tensei IV]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

16. [WARNING for self-harm]

[bogglelovesyou@tumblr]

__________________________________________________

17. [WARNING for attempted suicide and depression]

[The Walking Dead]

__________________________________________________

18. [WARNING for suicide]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #299.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

eh. I think it's more insulting that everyone seems to be assuming girls can't see Twilight for the dub-con fantasy fodder that it is. If guys can read "their" sci-fi with unrealistically beautiful and available sexyladies and somehow realize This Is Not Reality (or really, watch porn and know the same thing), I really think we should be giving girls the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, this.

Except both of those have been blamed for certain behaviors in guys? [Along with Hollywood being blamed for the number of guys who go for much younger women, and are legitly surprised when said younger women aren't acting like their the best thing ever].

aaaand it's kind of total bullshit either way, is my point.

I don't think it is. Everyone is affected by the media even if in a very small way and I don't think it's insulting to assume that some people could pick up negative ideas about relationships from what they're reading, especially if they're young.

Still I am convinced that the popularity of Twilight is a symptom of harmful ideas that are already out there much more than the other way around.

it's certainly a reflection of societal fucked up ideals. I don't exactly disagree with that. I don't think any of its contents is inherently fucked up. If anything, I think it's more directly a reflection on how illiterate we're slowly but surely becoming.

I also think it's a reflection of people getting more comfortable with fiction being written FOR women, with women having a sexuality, with women getting off. And really, I think that can only be progress.

Thing is guys (especially teenage ones) aren't any better at realizing their fantasies are unrealistic. Of course this doesn't mean every guy, but there are plenty who have wrong expectations of sex because all they know is porn (which is why sex-ed is so important) or who have very unrealistic expectations of how many sexy ladies life should just be throwing at them.

Are you getting this from a concrete number or just a feeling you have? Perhaps teen boys who have been completely sheltered from girls for whatever reason (I guess the high school scene could create this...) but I find that all those kinds of misconceptions get cleared up pretty fast when people start getting into the "actually getting laid" part of early adulthood many of them experience.

There is kind of crazy amounts of research into how the media and pornography (which is primarily aimed at men's fantasies) distorts how men view women.

Or how women should look and act in general...

We should, but the hype around "Edward" and how soooo many girls and women (and I'm sure lots of gay/bi boys/men)want him a or a guy like him shows that way too many people would easily fall into a abusive relationship. So it's not girls we need to protect from shit like that, it's people. I think a lot of people just assume girls/women are weak or dumb to be have told this and forget that it's not something only in females, but in this case the target if females. Males are just as dumb and can just as easily have the same happen to them. So, yes, i believe we need to protect all those teenage girls and tell them it's not a healthy relationship, just as we should tell boys, if they were the target in the story.

I hope it was clear what i meant, because english is not my first language.

Or it shows that people are sexually/romantically attracted to traits that aren't healthy in rl (possessiveness, domination, someone "taking over your life" and becoming "the centre of your universe").

And maybe I'm just being optimistic but I believe with the right education people can distinguish they fantasies from what a healthy reality looks like.

And I'm a pessimist and have long ago given up on humans. We are dumb and we suck and i'm really hoping the 2012 business is the whole truth.

so edgy.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-29 01:23 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-29 02:41 (UTC) - Expand

I don't know if I'm an optimist in that sense, but I... mm. I guess you could say I don't think artists should have to limit what they say to protect/save people. I don't think that's artists' job.

And yes, I do say this as someone who thinks Meyer is a bad writer who probably isn't even aware of the full implications of the stuff she's writing.

And maybe I'm just being optimistic but I believe with the right education people can distinguish they fantasies from what a healthy reality looks like.

I believe I must be pessimistic in that I believe that with the right education, people would be able to distinguish between fantasy and healthy reality, and still pursue the unhealthy fantasy. Because it "feels" right or "sounds more romantic" or whatever. Or maybe "it's different in our case!" Or whatever justification they want to come up with, because people go with whatever they feel they want and rationalize it later.

answer from the anon this is for -- as someone with fairly unhealthy sexual fantasies of my own, I've always found this an interesting topic. The thing is, being the geek I am, I have, from a very young age, been hyper aware of myself. I recognize what I want and what part of it is unhealthy and what parts could be expressed healthily. I'm also -highly- aware I have the kind of preferences that could land me in an unhealthy relationship if I'm not careful.

But I -am- aware of myself, so I'm able to use sexual expression as a kind of catharsis, therapy. I find joy in it -- I know this is anecdotal, but I guess as a human I come from a "if I can do it, so can you" perspective.

I do get your point though. Some people would pursue the unhealthy anyway. And seriously? I believe that that is their right. At least they're doing it fully informed, as opposed to just being another victim, another naive (wo)man trapped in an abusive situation. Fully educated, entering into a dysfunctional relationship would be the same as deciding to smoke and lunch on hamburgers everyday: stupid. Without education, people are being fed hamburgers and smokes with no idea of their negative effects. Which one is least ethical?

...wow, I have a lot of feels about this.

(no subject)

fadeinthewash - 2012-09-29 05:24 (UTC) - Expand

Isn't it possible to see it as both? I mean, the work can be influential and help shape people's opinions and views. Of course, it won't be the only thing. Also, people should be responsible for their own actions, so if they were to say, murder someone, they should be the one to take the blame, not any of the media they consume.

But to say it has no influence at all seems to not be completely seeing the whole picture.

Because if that were true, why would feminists be fighting for better representation in the media? They wouldn't because it wouldn't matter. Why would girls who listen to Chris Brown say he's the ideal boyfriend material and hope to have a boyfriend like him? They wouldn't.

I'm not saying it's black and white and media A causes personal action B but I would argue that it can help persuade/support/establish certain ideas or opinions. People are responsible for their own actions but they can be influenced can't they?

Unless I'm reading what you wrote wrong and that's not what you were saying. In which case, ignore this.

Edited 2012-09-29 00:47 (UTC)

this is really all I'm pointing out. While I think Twilight is more of a reflection of us a society (and an overall positive one as opposed to a negative one, on the whole, coming from the perspective of sex-positivity) than it warping our minds, I really doubt it's as simple as "Twilight causes/encourages abusive relationship." I feel like this kind of analysis lacks nuance and is way more harmful than it is helpful, in the long run -- which is why I have so many feels about it, I guess.

We're all influences by what is around us -- media is not exception. But in this day and age the average girl has more than just access to Twilight and Justin Beiber for her Ideas on Life. I feel like we have to trust girls to be able to think critically about what they read.

I agree. I think the only thing I need to add is that not everyone learns to be critical over everything they consume. Which leads to a larger influence on the person than what would otherwise happen. This is a shame and it's on the parents to teach their children how to not accept everything without questioning it.

Can they see it, though? Outside of fandom circles, I don't see a lot of, "Oh, Edward is a horrible douchebag, but I find this hot." I do see a lot of, "I want a boyfriend who will love me that much/treat me like Edward does!"

When I read your post I thought you wrote, "I want a boyfriend who will love me that much/mistreat me like Edward does!"

I am clearly biased.

That, yes.

I've always loved twisted D/s-y dubcon (Phantom of the Opera, anyone?) I never thought it was intended not to be disturbing.

Twilight I don't know enough about to be sure, but I always was really sad that in pretty much everything I could find when I hunted as a young adult for twisted dark romancey stuff because of my kink, the dominant figure loses in the end. I don't know how Twilight ends up (or want to), but I suspect that if it were less annoying, I might like it on principle for letting the twisted love win out, if it does.

Now that I've grown up, I know that kind of stuff's easier to find than I figured as a young adult/older teen, though.

And I've gotta say though that some of the stuff I've heard described from Twilight seems like it would hit much less of my "Oooo, stylized sexy twisted, mmm" buttons and much more of my "What? Why would you do that? That just sounds weird" buttons.

Edited 2012-09-29 01:56 (UTC)

People can easier discern sci-fi as fantasy than an abusive relationship as actual romance.

A better analogy is all those romcoms that is centered for dudes that always have a schulpy nice guy always getting the hottest chick in the movie, reinforcing the Nice Guy (TM) attitude in men and giving them an enforced view that they should get any girl they wanted and girls who dare judging them by their looks are shallow bitches even though the guy is virtually doing the same thing.

But let's not act like stuff like that doesn't come up by the same crowd or it's the general criticism of the title outside of fandom.

I get your point.

But then. Not every guy is a ~nice guy~. Not even a majority of them, despite growing up with pretty similar media saturation.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only