fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2099 ]

[ SECRET POST #2099 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2099 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #300.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - pretty much unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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One thing I don't get is why Sherlock is often called homophobic for queer-baiting, but I don't see people say this with the countless other shows/movies guilty of the same thing.

I suspect it's in part because certain circles of the fandom [that I've seen anyways - I can't speak about the rest] will sing praises for how 'progressive' Sherlock is, as far as gay couples go.

will sing praises for how 'progressive' Sherlock is, as far as gay couples go.

LOL.

Okay, I love Sherlock as much as the next fan, but even I have to admit that's bullpoop.

Hey, you won't catch me arguing. I enjoy the show - but I've always been confused where they got that little bit from.

SA

I guess the only thing I can really think of is that, those who assume they are gay, are perfectly fine with it...? I mean very few of the 'jokes' are really characters taking the piss aside from maybe Mycroft (and possibly Irene). People just genuenly assume they're a couple and are cool with it.

But even if that was progressive, the constant baiting definitely pulls the show back from being so.

Different anon, but can someone give me an example of "queer baiting" in the show? I've seen all six episodes, and I feel stupid because I'm not sure what this is and I can't recognize when it happened.

It's the general idea that, for all that people think they are a couple, they aren't and the show will never go that way. They don't bait the characters... they bait the audience.

So when a show teases a m/f pairing for ages but never goes with it...is that straight-baiting? And is it something we should be just as worried about?

Well, *I* personally find 'will they/won't they?' annoying no matter what kind of characters we're talking about. I'm also incredibly tired of the fact that most m/f couples on TV that get the 'will they/won't they' treatment... usually end up ruining both characters when they finally do it (since Moonlighting, IMO).

Also, while m/f pairings get teased forever... well, I still haven't seen a series where the m/F pairing doesn't get together in the end. OTOH, I've yet to see a series where an m/m pairing gets teased and gets anywhere close to making them canon with it.

I still haven't seen a series where the m/F pairing doesn't get together in the end

Joey and Phoebe in Friends.

Willow and Xander in Buffy could also count. I mean they sort of got together for a little bit in series 3 but then it was instantly dropped and Willow became gay so...*shrug*

Nathan and Kelly in Misfits is probably the most blatant one I could think of. They had a series and a half of serious build-up and then it came to them having sex it was suddenly "Oh I'm not into you after all." This shipper was not happy about that one.

And from my childhood nostalgia, TK and Kari in Digimon. Grr.

That's why I said *I* haven't seen a series where that happens.

I don't watch Friends, or Misfits, or Digimon. But Xander and Willow weren't teased in a will they/won't they way, it was more of an unrequited crush from Willow, with Xander pinning for Buffy, so it's a different dinamic.

Jesus laundromat Christ, I can't believe I've found another TKari shipper! Let me love you!

(no subject)

hwc - 2012-10-02 15:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-02 00:24 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

brightblueink - 2012-10-02 00:36 (UTC) - Expand

M/f teasing is very rarely treated as a joke, and when it is, it's usually centered around finding the other's personality gross/something else specific to them gross. Not their entire gender, or the thought of being seen as straight. Or they have a strong platonic connection that they can't see going any other way, while having het relationships elsewhere. Even with Harry and Hermione, while they never agree with the thoughts other characters have about them as a couple, the idea of them being together is treated as legitimate.

It's also no where near the same thing since straight couples happen all over the place, while queer couples don't. The teasing sucks because that might be the only mention of gayness existing in a whole series. Besides lesbians who go for dudes and stuff.

Katara and Zuko in ATLA. And boy did people yell about het baiting there!

But yeah, I think there are plenty of shows with a m/f lead where there's a running joke of people assuming they're a couple or are married etc. Though often it does lead to an eventual pairing.

That's just ship teasing. But actual straight couple in mainstream shows are the norm and plenty while LGQBT couples are not, which is why queer baiting is problematic, especially when it's played for laughs.

It's not that, it's all the times that someone thinks Sherlock and John are a couple, and the audience is meant to laugh at John's discomfort and denials.

Second this. I think the show has set up Sherlock and John as two people who deeply care about each other but I've never seen any hints that they'd actually get together romantically.

ayrt

I don't think that makes it fair to single Sherlock out though, especially since aside from the queer-baiting, I think it's handled some things quite well.

SA

I'm not arguing that it's fair, it isn't. But the louder certain people are about queer baiting being 'progressive' the more likely that group those people are in are to be singled out for it.

ayrt

That is true.

I think it's because fans of other shows don't try to claim their queer-baiting bromances are legitimate gay representation, and that therefore disrupting the bromance dynamic (changing one of them to a woman, introducing a legit het love interest) is homophobic.

Except for Kirk/Spock fans.

Wait... what is queer-baiting? It is slash goggles?

this is what i've gathered from today's post

I thought the queer-baiting was all the times that someone thinks Sherlock and John are a couple, and John is flustered and denies, and it is to laugh.

i dont think this is the huge social ill everyone is making it out to be

i laughed during those scenes because john was so flustered about it whereas sherlock doesn't seem to give half an actual shit but yeah i still thought they were funny. oops?

anyway, it seems like people are confused about what fandom means by this term because it sounds like you're talking specifically about gay jokes where the punchline is "but they aren't gay! ha ha" whereas other people are saying it's because the writers hint at them being couple-like but don't make them an actual couple. just thought i'd point that out

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