[ SECRET POST #2099 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2099 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #300.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - pretty much unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I don't care if fans ship it, I just wish they would stop getting pissed whenever a new character (male or female) is introduced. I don't care if you think that Cas/Lisa/Ruby/Jo might get in the way of your Wincest. Wincest will never be canon and adding secondary characters will not magically make Dean and Sam never see each other. People can have family AND friends.

OT but

[(Anonymous)]

I was so sad about Lisa and Jo. :( Especially Lisa. Lisaaaaaa

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

Same here. :( It seems like a good portion of the fandom hates Lisa, though. I think that's really unfair.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, Lisa was awesome when she first appeared, but she pretty much became a plot device the longer she was around, so I don't blame fans for getting sick of her. She went from a firey single mother who would tell Dean off for being a bad influence on her son, to a bland smile whose sole purpose was to comfort Dean and to manufacture a bit of angst when it came time for him to choose between her and his brother. (And since every single viewer knew that he wasn't going to choose her in the end, no one cared)

Plus, Dean's year with her made very little sense (A violent, alcoholic, suicidal, antisocial, monster-hunter who grew up in a car, spent 40 years in hell and has been suffering from life-long PTSD, is suddenly able to hold down a steady job, pay bills, raise a teenager, and carry on a long-term romantic relationship? And it was "The best year of her life"? Just no).

Lisa and Ben could have been fascinating. They could have been interesting enough so that we'd actually believe Dean loved them, as opposed to staying because he had no where else to go, and then out of guilt. They could have been a great tragedy to add to the list, but they were so poorly conceived and written that no one gave a shit.

Of course, that's SPN's main problem with love interests, they don't write them as 'people', they write them as attractive walking vaginas with hardly any personality, motivation or purpose other than having sex with the brothers. Then they blame the 'fangirls' for not liking them. One of the few females that was introduced and nearly universally loved was Charlie, and EP Bob Singer thinks it's because 'she's a lesbian and so she won't have sex with the boys', but the reality is that she was a lesbian so the writers were forced to give her an actual personality other than 'sex toy'.

Besides, there have been plenty of female characters that were introduced that the fans loved (or at least didn't hate), and each and every one of them have been fridged.


*disclaimer: I do know that there are a few (loud) fans out there who do hate any female character because she might get in the way of the epic man-love, or whatever, but they don't represent fandom as a whole, and people should be willing to admit the writers' failure to create and sustain compelling female characters is a large part of why fans don't like many of the women.

Re: OT but

[celestiel]

I agree with this about the writing decisions re; Lisa, but I really disagree with the notion that all the female character were just introduced as love interests or walking vaginas? The narrative is never particularly kind to women, but I think to say they don't have personalities is kind of a disservice and a pretty skewed way of looking at it.

For one, very few side characters in SPN get that much depth at all, mainly because they don't last very long (Gabriel was only in 4 episodes, for example), but it's only the female characters that people get hyper-critical of, and blame their lack of depth on the fact that they're female. As far as I'm concerned, plenty of the female characters have been compelling and had potential to be incredibly interesting before being killed off.

Also, people always say the female characters are just there for the boys to have sex with, yet the only recurring female characters that Sam and Dean have slept with are Anna, Lisa, and Ruby. Two of them had their own personalities, storylines, and agendas (and Lisa used to and had loads of potential before S6) so I really don't know where people get that from.

I was gonna write more but then I got bored. Basically all I'm saying is that, yeah SPN has some major problems with sexism, but the fandom's just as culpable. I do think the show's overall worse for pandering to the incredibly sexist fandom, but... it was the fandom had massive, largely unjustified hate campaigns in the first place.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

Completely agree with this post.

Ruby was SUPER interesting. She was sassy and spunky, and you couldn't really tell whether she was good or not until the end. She definitely had her own agenda, and that made her a pretty fascinating character.

I also liked Anna a lot, and she definitely had her own motivations. I was sad that she didn't stick around for very long 'cause she had to go dark side. :/

While not "love interests" per se, Jo, Ellen, Bela, and Meg are all interesting female characters. Or were except for Meg. I'm a bit bitter that they killed off Jo because I felt she had a lot of potential, and it would've been cool to see her teaming up with the Winchesters every now and then for a hunt.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

Spoiler: She shows up in Season 7 as a ghost and it's pretty obvious Dean cared about her.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, cool. I'm still on season 6. Can't wait for that cameo. :D

Re: OT but

[insolentwitch]

Your comment was very well reasoned and I agree with it full on. I think Anna, Meg, Ruby, Missouri Mosely, Sheriff Jody Mills, Pamela, Ellen and Jo (to name a few) were all much more than walking vaginas. Not only did Jo have her own motivations, but her backstory (and some of Ellen's) is expanded on quite a bit in companion material. I really liked several of the female characters. And while I can say that many of them died too soon, that's true for most characters regardless of gender.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, but the interesting ones were not sex objects, is the point. Jo started off pretty weird, when they couldn't seem to decide how old she was and yet were also setting her up as "Dean Love Object": once they stopped doing that, she got much more interesting. A lot of the "one off" female characters, especially in the first two seasons, are great, because again the writers seem to be writing an interesting character rather than a "sexy woman" character. It when they spend the time brainstorming a longterm female love interest that they seem to tick all the poochie boxes, because they stop seeing her as a character.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

+1

very well said.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

I'm almost scared to ask, but...what happened to Lisa? DDDD:

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

SPOILERS




Lisa got possesed, the demon tried to kill Lisa while inside her, and Dean had Lisa and Ben's memories wiped.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

DAMMIT SHOW.

I stopped watching before that happened because the episodes were just going downhill, but I knew it. I freaking knew it.

Re: OT but

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, I found season 7 a lot more fun than season 6. Season 6 just made me sad and angry :(

[celestiel]

My god a million times this. I like Wincest but I will never not be bitter that Ruby, Bela, Jo, Lisa etc. all got written off because extreme fans hated them for 'getting in the way'. And Castiel is relatively safe (or as safe as you can get on SPN if you're not Sam or Dean), but I could really do without the hate campaigns to get him written off. Sam and Dean will always be the focal point, there's no need to be so insecure, Jesus.

But seriously I've seen people complain that Sam and Dean weren't ~together enough~ in season 7 because sometimes they were in different rooms. I'm not joking.

[(Anonymous)]

My god a million times this. I like Wincest but I will never not be bitter that Ruby, Bela, Jo, Lisa etc. all got written off because extreme fans hated them for 'getting in the way'.

I've never been into Wincest, but I always hated that women seemed to get written out/killed off because the fanbase would kick and scream when they were there. I think Wincest was only one driving factor; the other was fangirls with intense crushes who freaked out every time a woman showed up because they were afraid they'd lose their fictional boyfriend(s). I know I witnessed at least one fangirl who acted this way but also seemed to think she was above that kind of behavior (everything she posted in discussions suggested otherwise). It's disgusting and one of the main reasons I left the fandom. Oh, and I hated getting made fun of and/or talked down to when I tried to point out their behavior.

This show kinda needs to end so the insanity can stop.

[meredith44]

This. The summer before Bela and Ruby were even introduced fans were all upset about the idea of the characters. Complaining that they were obviously only love interests and would ruin the show.

The show handles (handled? I haven't watched since Ellen and Jo) female characters poorly, but fandom's attitudes regarding the females really bothered me. Even Misha Collins commented on it once. In an interview, he was asked why he thought his character was going over so well with fans, and he replied, "It's because I'm not female." (Not exact wording on question or answer, as it has been years since I saw the interview, but the gist is correct.)

Sigh...

[tabaqui]

Yeah, not *all* fans. I hated very few characters on that show, and loved seeing old ones come back. The ones who have a hate-on for 'potential' partners for the boys are the most vocal, but *not* the majority.

[(Anonymous)]

Wincesters no longer have the monopoly on this. I have already seen resentment of (new character) Benny from Castiel stans. Apparently Benny gets a hug from Dean at some point. Something he has NEVER gifted Cas with. This will not stand I tell you!