Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-10-01 06:20 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-10-01 06:20 pm
[ SECRET POST #2099 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2099 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #300.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - pretty much unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 03:02 am (UTC)(link)That said. The vast majority of people who identify as anti-Israel do not choose their position out of informed understanding. They don't understand Israeli society. They don't understand Palestinian society. They're looking at the conflict as a completely black and white, good guys vs bad guys thing, paint Israel as the complete monster, and usually... don't give that much of a damn about the Palestinians outside of the Israeli context from my experience, because they're usually pretty uninformed about what's going on internally in the Palestinian society.
That's a good description of what's going on almost all online spaces when they come to discuss Israel, including ONTD. You can see that on ONTD, for example, when people ask what they have against Portman and a common reaction is "She's Zionist", to be followed by "she's Zionist? OMG EW I DIDN'T KNOW." (I think that was the exchange about 5 times at least in the last Portmam post). Anyone who knows anything about Zionism looks at it and either dies with laughter or bangs their head on the desk, because the range of people who identify as Zionists goes from hardcore right wing fundamentalists to Meretz who are left wing liberals and are responsible for most of the anti-occupation and human rights legislation in the past 20 years. "Zionist" is just an acceptable term because coming right out and saying "Jewish" is unacceptable. That's when ignorance is becoming antisemitism and that's happening all the fucking time.
I have nothing against people who criticise Israel. I've done that plenty. But do it out of an informed position because otherwise most likely you will start to repeat antisemitic bullshit. So yeah, it's usually enough for me to see people throw around words like Zionist to side-eye them. It's a very good indication they don't actually have a clue what they're talking about.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 04:41 am (UTC)(link)I never used the word Zionist. I'm also not really sure if you're criticizing me, but I agree with what you're saying (anti-Jewish sentiment is also not considered PC in my country). My position on Israel has more to do with the actions of Israeli citizens against the Bene and Beta Israel, the fact that absolutely everything my country does in the Middle East is partially dictated by Israel yet Israel doesn't consider the US when making foreign policy decisions, the treatment of the Palestinians and the way the Israelis went about getting their land, and the reasons for supporting the two state system.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:07 am (UTC)(link)I was talking more in general terms and out of my own personal frustration at how much antisemitism is entrenched in a lot of the criticism of Israel and often drowns out legitimate criticism of Israel, not specifically reacting to what you said. I replied to your post because your post was about criticism of Israel - like I said, it's important and I agree it's important, but we can't bury our head in the sand. I hate blanket statements but this is one case I feel justified in making them - most people who criticise Israel have no clue what they're talking about and that is a good enough reason to start questioning what's behind their positions.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:10 am (UTC)(link)If you feel justified to compare Israel to the Nazis, it's time to check what's behind a lot of your beliefs. I'll give you a hint - they're not about historical accuracies and not even about the crimes Israel is committing.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:21 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:23 am (UTC)(link)You're implying that there is a dissonance between "literal Nazis" and the stuff Israel pulls on a daily basis. The NSDAP was fueled on hatred for the humiliation other countries had served them, many of its early policies were based in revenge for the same as well as class differences, and it eventually indulged in religious and racial-based genocide and apartheid. There's not a huge amount of difference between your average "literal Nazi" and the Israeli government.
If so then yes, you did say that. That's why I asked if you're the same anon.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:40 am (UTC)(link)Oh god, this. I especially love the ones who support Hamas unconditionally -- sometimes even going so far as to give them money! -- and don't care that Hamas likes to kill dissenters, homosexuals, rape victims, apostates, blasphemers and people who play loud music at weddings. That's always charming.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 05:50 am (UTC)(link)Hearing the way people justify that just gives you a whole view into people's ignorance and how they don't know what they're talking about. Like all the "Hamas were democratically elected and I'm completely going to ignore the 3-week-military-coup-thing" or the fact Hamas are basically trying to start Sharia law against most of the population's wishes, which is generally much more liberal.
Yeah, great supporters of the Palestinians, that lot. The occupation is bound to end, sooner or later, one way or the other, and then none of them is going to give a shit that the Palestinians would be stuck under a theocratic dictatorship. I mean, Israel most certainly isn't going to give a shit, but at least it doesn't pretend to care.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-02 06:09 am (UTC)(link)You never hear hardcore "pro-Palestinians" complaining about how Lebanon treats its Palestinian population, for example. And whenever I point out their hypocrisy, they accuse me of trying to deflect criticism away from Israel. As if it's impossible to criticize both Israel and Lebanon at the same time.
no subject