fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #219 ]

[ SECRET POST #219 ]

⌈ Secret Post #219 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 103 secrets from Secret Submission Post #032.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, August 12th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Oh noes! I'm anonymous!

First off, it's good to see some people actually agree. I was beginning to think I was going go go crazy from all the "We're packin' up our blogs and leavin!"

Second, I think it's hilarious that from my one singular secret post people were like "Oh yeah, well you like violence! What about censoring that!??!" Um, thanks, didn't mention that. If you're replying to someone else, sorry, but I thought I read every comment about 7. I also like the implication that I don't like Harry Potter Pedo but I loves the anime Pedo. Thanks. Didn't mention that either. But now that you mention it, I don't like any of it.

As for fictional characters don't get hurt, no shit. I never said that fictional beings made of ink and paper were capable of feeling pain. I'm not an idiot. However, pedophiles get obsessions and courage to act from somewhere. Pornography can be the catalyst that causes them to act. I'm not saying it turned them into a pedophile, I'm saying that an already disturbed person can pick up fictional child pornography and gain the courage to act. But hey, maybe I just watch too much SVU.

My secret was originally longer to include that, but hell, I don't read secrets that are long because I think they're boring.

I'm not some crazy censoring Nazi, either. I'm actually opposed to censorship. However, LJ is a private business, as many have mentioned. I'm just tired of everyone crying because their pr0n is gone. I'm also tired of hearing how it's art. I'll admit that the naked human body can be art, but I fail to see how smut is art. I'm using the term smut to refer to fiction or art drawn for the purpose of making someone (particularly the artist) get all hot and bothered.

And I know this is back a few pages, but hell, someone compared LJ to Nazi Germany during the Holocaust. I do remember how the poem about them coming for the Jews first ended. It ended about a GOVERNMENT that committed GENOCIDE. It was not about a private business expelling clients. This is a fucking blog site for God's sake. First they censored the pedophiles and then they came for the fluffy bunnies made of chocolate and love!

P.S. You gotta love the Anonymous Party.

It's one thing to be annoyed at people whining about a private business not acting completely fair and just as if it were a government; or perhaps to be annoyed at the ridiculous Godwin's law and nazi comparisions.

So in a sense, that can be agreed on. But talking about supporting the deletion of journals, rather than saying you understand the deletion or something, kind of does sound like you're a little "Oh no the childrenz the fictional childrenz ;_;" person. When in reality, especially because the wank revolved around teen porn (I think? I have no idea, really), that's a bit of a ridiculous and over the top.

Wording wording wording and all.

However, pedophiles get obsessions and courage to act from somewhere. Pornography can be the catalyst that causes them to act. I'm not saying it turned them into a pedophile, I'm saying that an already disturbed person can pick up fictional child pornography and gain the courage to act. But hey, maybe I just watch too much SVU.

Courage to act?

Plz to be doing or looking up actual research, not HOW TO STOP A PREDATOR stuff on the tellie.

If someone molests a child, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a pedophile. They committed a pedophiliac act, but beforehand they could have had no pathological interest or paraphilia obsession with children. That could have been the only child they've ever considered in that way.

Furthermore, actual pedophilia is highly underresearched on both sides. You don't get 'courage' to act out a sexual deviancy, it's a psychological fixation and it just happens, or is usually bound to happen no matter what.

Before the internet existed, before child pornography existed, pedophiles existed. They got the 'courage' to act from where, then? There was no porn to tell them "BE BRAVE! MOLEST A CHILD!!" It is a FIXATION.*

That is where rational people (see: the ones not comparing LJ deleting journals to something actually SERIOUS like the holocaust) tend to not understand where you're coming from past the "OMG BUT ITS CREEPY AND SCARY" stage.

* I'm talking about actual pedophilia, not someone that's into a teenager. which isn't the actual definition of a pedophile. Show me studies and statistics proving adolescents aren't sexual in nature and I will start thinking it's 'odd' for people to write about them being sexual with other teenagers or adults.

I agree that my wording concerning the use of "support" was poor judgment. I should have said I understand.

As for my assertion about "courage to act." That was another reason I deleted that part from my original secret. There is a huge lack of information regarding the effects of fictional child pornography on the actions of pedophiles. In fact, I came upon articles that said "information regarding the effects of child pornography on pedophiles is unclear." Sorry I didn't have time to set up a psychological study. ;)

Before the internet existed, before child pornography existed, pedophiles existed. They got the 'courage' to act from where, then? There was no porn to tell them "BE BRAVE! MOLEST A CHILD!!" It is a FIXATION.*

I know. I addressed that. I said that the porn doesn't make the pedophile. Some people are just fixated and will act not matter what. The only way I can think of explaining this is with fire. You can have fire alone and it will burn. You can add gasoline and it can get a whole lot worse. And the only To Catch a Predator I've seen is from clips on The Soup.

As for your * section, I think using the words adolescent and teenager are tricky when discussing sexuality. Teenager includes 13-19 and considering the wide gradient of sexual development, it really is a case by case situation. Some people are mature at fourteen. However, any sexual relationship where there is a wide gap in power (say a fourteen year old having sex with an older person who has some authority) then it is likely to be at least somewhat unhealthy. This also refers to power gaps that aren't caused by age, too.

Then overall, we're at least not warring. Sorry if I seemed condescending, I honestly didn't mean to come off that way. Eugh. This is actually an area of study that I am pursuing.

Yeah, pedophilia in general is just pretty much underresearched, not 'unclear'. Mostly because people in the US don't want to dedicate money to the research because of the taboo subjects, and they will discard any studies coming from Scandanavian countries that have loose age of consent laws.

But no matter how contrived it is, once again we're brought up with the comparision of violence. A violent video game will give someone the idea to act out violence as much as a fanfic or piece of fanart will, I presume, but violence and sex, and all of the deviant acts that come with both, have existed long before free press or media.

It is a case by case situation, but the law doesn't treat it as so. People see teenagers, usually, as complete bumbling idiots in the realm of sexuality, that make 'mistakes'. However, if a teenager sleeps with an adult, it's never a consentual decision or a 'mistake', it's always rape by law. Which is a bit insulting to the actual cases of real rape, and it's why people become doubtful and rape victims get so much shit usually. Because the word is thrown around in subjects that make people with their own conventional 'wisdom' go "yeah right".

Some people are mature at fourteen.
Granted. However, maturity is also a tricky word. Are we talking about IQ, experience, ability to reason, etc.? By that logic there are many immature adults. In any case, maturity should not be the deciding factor in whether or not someone should get locked up for having sex with someone. Yes, a guy who has sex with a bubbly immature 15 year old girl who is, say, 25, would be a creep by my standards. However, I don't think she's incapable of consent, because the charming captain of a football team, or hell, even her friends, can pressure her and rush her into a decision to go into sex just as much as an older man should, and therefore he shouldn't be charged with rape, only by my standards. Because immaturity is an abstract concept. If she has the endorphins necessary to feel romantic bliss, the hormones, and the cognitive ability to make mature decisions, then I call it consent. Not a wise decision, but consent.

I understand why such laws exist and what they exist to protect for.

Prepubescent is often different, and studies of very young child sexuality show this. A young child, when sexual, does it to explore physical sensations rather than actually having a goal or an emotional motive. Manipulation is very easy in this case.

However, any sexual relationship where there is a wide gap in power (say a fourteen year old having sex with an older person who has some authority) then it is likely to be at least somewhat unhealthy. This also refers to power gaps that aren't caused by age, too.

I like that you added that last thing at the end. This is to assume that there aren't any valid feelings between the teacher and the student (or just the person in power/authority). Which probably, in most cases, it's nothing past infatuation or something sexual. I am sure there are exceptions in a case by case scenario, but in general it's most likely to be unhealthy.

My personal feelings are that teenagers rush into things sexually (and it's natural for them) too often. Just because they do it and it leads to mistakes, I don't think it's wrong or should get so many people thrown in jail. It's such a complicated subject, a taboo one, and sometimes a very squicky and uneasy subject, as there are too many adults that do act unprofessional all for a fleeting infatuation (with a teenager or an adult, really).

And teenagers can manipulate each other just as easily.

Oh, and to be back to the original topic, LJ has a right to act as douchey and unprofessional as they want, like I said. They are a private blog, not a government, so that makes sense there, even if I disagree with the deletions, I won't go saying how completely horrific they are and post WWII poems D:

Ah, and by the way, now that it's clarified a bit more, though we have fundamentally different views on the very controversial (AND SUPER AWESOME) topic of pedophilia, I don't think it's irrational or 'censor nazi' ish for someone to not think LJ is super evil for doing things their own way, even if it is unprofessional.

I think you're making some good points. Though I've discovered usually more than three paragraphs of text and people's heads implode from information overload.

I'm agreeing with you here, though. When I was a mod at Y! I read some pretty disturbing journals that hinted some users with regular contact with kids were getting ideas from the art that they saw there, as well as knowing people that used such art to prove they were "perfectly normal". There's plenty of sane shota fans out there. They wouldn't touch a real boy and some are even really squicked by actual kids. It's those crazy ones that get paranoid mothers all freaked out.

In Canada it's illegal to have even drawn porn with minors. In the US, artwork can't intentionally resemble an existing child.

On a website level, I hate the way the thing is being handled, by both users and administration. It's the right decision for them to make though, legally, and they only did it after some intense pressure was put on them by over-protective mothers.

I actually feel really sorry for you, though, that you can't share an opinion with your friends and have them respect it. Which I believe was the actual point to the secret, and not the rest of the crazy crap that ensued. I have a few friends that I disagree with on the matter, and I've never given them a hard time about it nor them me. I really need to appreciate them more for that.

That was the actual point of it. I was sick of people making "BYE LOSERS!" posts in their LJs and calling anyone who wanted to stay lazy and stupid. Maybe I'm "lazy" because I don't feel like shifting all of my journal entries over to GreatestJournal or some other blogsite, but I've been a member of LJ for seven years and I've got a paid account. I'm not about to leave because someone's crying over their loss of porn.

Ahhhh. I see.

I'm half expecting GreatestJournal to implode or something from the giant influx.

I've been cracking up that everyone is migrating to GreatestJournal. I used to play in a few RPGs over there and um, it crashes. Constantly. They only reason we used it for games was the unlimited icons.

Yeah, I've done RPing there too and it kind of is crap for crashing. Though I do like the unlimited icons thing. I sort of wish you could just buy the icons on LJ without having a paid account, but that's a whole other pile of complaint on itself.

::sigh:: Can't people make references to literature without it being an entire comparison? I think that's a terribly silly thing to be upset about.

Also... I don't like the pornography, I simply disagree with livejournal's methods of getting rid of the material they objected to, and objecting to that material. On an entirely theoretical level, I would like to know that the people who control my 'journal can't just... delete it without clarifying why until afterwards. And no, I don't have any pornographic anythings -- text or drawn -- and I don't make a habit of reading/viewing it.

The other thing is... I don't agree that it's child pornography, but that is neither here nor there, and I don't feel like going into it when I don't think you'll care one way or the other. (:

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[ SECRET POST #219 ]

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