[ SECRET POST #2148 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2148 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #307.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - doing a bit of troll-weeding ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Christian Free speach VS Atheist free speach-Both lost

[(Anonymous)]

'It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested," said Hunter Jameson, the head of the nonprofit Santa Monica Nativity Scene Committee in an interview with the Daily Mail.

Ugggggggggh, way to belittle the actual trials and sacrifices your own damn savior, Hunter Jameson.

My way of thinking about is this: you have the right to freely exercise your religion (within bounds). However, nativity scenes are not a fundamental part of the Christian religion: they're kitschy holdovers from a time when people couldn't read and had to have everything explained to them in pictures, and a way to get kids interested and involved. Which is something you should be doing in church, not something you have a right to do on public land.

Re: Christian Free speach VS Atheist free speach-Both lost

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, and w/r/t speech: the Constitution says the government can't infringe on your right to speak, but that doesn't mean it has to give you a platform to do it on. And a public space, maintained by public dollars, watched over by the police, who're probably going to be required to investigate should it be vandalized again, is pretty much giving you that platform. So, saying "Christianity is the one and true religion, check out our savior!" totally cool; expecting a public park to give you space to say that, not so much.

Re: Christian Free speach VS Atheist free speach-Both lost

[diet_poison]

Just curious, what would you say if someone were dressed in religious garb in a park, or talking about religion to someone in a park?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but curious. I feel that people should be able to utilize public space as they see fit as long as they're not harming people. (The government shouldn't be putting it up though, and I also agree about the display because it's monopolizing that space over a long period of time, and agree with the people who say it's dumb that in general people aren't as tolerant of other religions having the same kind of speech)

Re: Christian Free speach VS Atheist free speach-Both lost

[(Anonymous)]

Well as you say, it comes down to whether or not they're harming people. If they're standing there preaching that's fine, if annoying, but if they're harassing people it becomes problematic. It may be a thin line, but I would imagine it's rare for the police to be called on such a person unless they're really seen as a threat. Plus I don't think anyone listening would see a mobile individual preaching in a public park as someone who was endorsed by a government official. With a semi-permanent nativity scene, I imagine at some point they had to get licenses, and at some point a municipal bureaucrat looked at their applications and said "Ah yes, this blatantly religious symbol is a perfectly acceptable use of public land!" and stamped it along. So, y'know, iffy in terms of separation of church and state.

The main difference in my mind, though, is that in the random preaching person situation someone (ie, an atheist, or a person of a different religion, or someone of the same religion who doesn't think you should stand around in public proselytizing) has a much better shot at directly confronting them (which is also free speech). An atheist group wanting to challenge nativity scenes would have to through a whole process to put up billboards etc, and since they are a minority class (in that there's definitely fewer of them than there are religious people) that people still aren't all that fond of, it's harder for them to protest. And when they do (as happened in the above story), they end up in court.

Re: Christian Free speach VS Atheist free speach-Both lost

[(Anonymous)]

the Constitution says the government can't infringe on your right to speak, but that doesn't mean it has to give you a platform to do it on.

That's definitely my POV, too. Freedom of speech isn't a guarantee that your words will be heard, it just means that you can say what you want without fear of someone coming around and hauling you into an unmarked van.

I remember a while back when Michael Moore came out with a new film and the production company was owned by Disney and Disney didn't want to be involved with releasing the film. It eventually got released, but people were crying free speech and censorship and I was thinking honey, that's not how it works. You are free to speak your mind but you can't force people to help you get your message out.

In my neighborhood, there are nativity scenes set up in front of a lot of churches, the catholic school, and some private houses. That's freedom of expression. Asking for an additional platform - even on public property - is going beyond the right to free speech and your rights aren't being infringed if you are told "no."