[ SECRET POST #2162 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2162 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 081 secrets from Secret Submission Post #309.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not into comics, so I may be wrong about this, but doesn't stuff like this (the originator superhero dying/retiring with a new person taking up the mask) happen ALL THE TIME? Or at least it's not the first time it's happened. If the only difference now that people are making a big fuss is that the new guy's afro-latino...that seems iffy to me.

In other news: why is the fact that it's "New Progressive Spiderman" (read: not a white guy) getting the blame, and not that it's...I don't know, poorly marketed, badly written, etc? Like whenever a movie headlined by a woman fails it's because IT WAS ABOUT A WOMAN, MEN DON'T WATCH THAT but tons of films with guys as the lead characters fail and...that's never the cause. It's just 'cause the movies suck.

[(Anonymous)]

That entire last paragraph is painfully accurate.

The tanking of the comic probably had more to do with people's nostalgic bond with "Peter Parker as Spiderman" and poor marketing decisions.

But you know somebody's still gonna say: "WELP I GUESS NOBODY WANTS TO READ ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE."

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention if you are black and you don't like a black character it is the considered so weird and blasphemous.

I mean, just because I share an ethnicity with a character doesn't mean I like or have anything else in common with them. I don't think white people are expected to love all white characters.

[(Anonymous)]

White people are considered racist if they prefer white characters; black people are told they're internalizing racism if they don't prefer black characters. So what do you do when the character, regardless of race, sucks?

[(Anonymous)]

Blame the writers.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the problem comes in when people don't give good reasons as to why they prefer the white or don't prefer the black character.

Like if I said I didn't like this black character but I like this other character who is a carbon copy but he's white, something seems really off about that.

Also, I think it could be poor marketing as to why it's tanking and too much damn nostalgia.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate how people jump on white writers if they don't have sufficient numbers of 'POC' in their writing, and then scream at them when they do because they 'always get it wrong'.

It's a no win, and it really stupid.

[omorka]

Is it just me, or is it weird that comic execs still think like that after Spawn was so damn big in the '90s? Or does "dead" trump "black" somehow?

[(Anonymous)]

So. Much. This.

Thank you for saying it far more accurately and eloquently than I could.

[(Anonymous)]

OP here. I'm not blaming that as the reason. I'm blaming the bad writing. But at the same time, there was even a secret on here that said "New Spiderman is black? Now I'm going to read this!" And it looks like that person and the many like him who posted agreement didn't stick around. If they even showed up at all.

Here's the thing: Ultimate Spiderman has consistently been the best selling comic in the Ultimate comic line. It was good. Very good. And when they decided to end it, they did a great job with it!

And then they are all "wait, it's not over yet! New Spiderman It's gonna be just as good!" And at first, it was! Now it's not.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah you definitely don't come across as horribly racist by predicting the failure of this series (with as much knowledge as the people who "foolishly" said it was going to be good) and then celebrating the fact that you just happened to be right and that's all it's about guys honest jeez why is everyone calling me racist it's not like i went out of my way to make an anonymous declaration about how right i was and and how i knew this series was going to suck (COMPLETELY unrelated to the black main character of course REVERSE RACISMMMMM)

[(Anonymous)]

OPYRT

And I've not been called racist that much here. I was called it then. When I said this.

And unlike the ones who said it'd be good, I was right. I'm a nerd. Being right about this sort of thing is the most important thing.

And who said that had nothing to do with it? Maybe it wasn't pandering, maybe it was. But lets not pretend people didn't see it that way. And didn't like the idea of killing off one character to try again with that character lite but younger and more diverse.

I gave it a chance. It disappointed me. You can say that's because I'm racist if you are so convinced. But I was still right.

And be honest, do you even read it?

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, if it started off good then got bad, you were both right.

Frankly it sounds like with comics these days, even good for a little while is above average.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that might have been my secret?
I've been reading it!

I'm a little behind because I'm running low on money right now (so maybe I haven't reached where it got less-good? For me captain America has just shown up which I'm :| about 'cause I don't like him and Miles is trying to join the Ultimates and while I prefer him to continue to work alone, I don't mind seeing where that goes). But I've been quietly enjoying it. I haven't really commented about it on FS because I don't think I've seen any other secrets about him and haven't felt the need to make a secret because none of my reactions so far have been secret-worthy.

I haven't really been involved in any discussions because they always end up into arguments about how Miles is a political correctedness stunt (so what? It's bad to even out the races in comics?), if he flunks it's obviously because he's black and not poor advertising or writing (mind you, I'm enjoying the story and art) and I'm getting tired of needing to justify why I like Morales more than Parker (who I never liked anyway so...).

[(Anonymous)]

OPYRT No, I'd say it's the writing. Though I loved Peter so there's one way we obviously differed from the beginning.

Mostly in the circles I'm in, it's Bendis hate more then anything.

I really don't like the whole ultimate's thing myself. Issue 17 is making me consider dropping the title completely. Assuming the title itself isn't dropped completely at the rate it's going.

[dazzledfirestar]

It definitely happens. Not OMG ALL THE TIME, but it's not a new idea by a long shot. And the thing with this particular instance is... they didn't REALLY take away Peter Parker as Spider-Man. He's still around in the regular/main universe. This is a side-verse. Granted a very popular one, but still, NOTHING was really lost here.

Which, for me makes it even iffier on the side of "OMG NOT WITHOUT PETER PARKER!" argument. :\

*cough*

[insanenoodlyguy]

BIG ASSSS SPOILER BELOW! STOP READING ON THIS LINE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ ASM #698 and plan too!


... Peter Parker just died in 616. With implications that even if he comes back, he won't be spiderman anymore (superior spiderman is by all indications Miguel O'Hara)

BIG ASS SPOILER PICTURE BELOW!









(He has a heart attack and flatlines on the next page)

Re: *cough*

[dazzledfirestar]

Well. Fuck me.

I give it six months.

Re: *cough*

[(Anonymous)]

he's not dead.

Re: *cough*

[iggy]

Eh he'll be back in the suit within two years max.

[truxillogical]

Yeah, that's what I appreciate about the Ultimate Universe. It's loads better than just tossing out the entire established universe to try something different.

[dazzledfirestar]

Exactly. I am not the Ultimate U's biggest fan but it's a far better option than tossing the baby out with the bath water.

[(Anonymous)]

badly marketed for sure

I didn't even know this was even a thing!

[(Anonymous)]

It happens a lot but it rarely lasts so it's always funny when people are surprised it reverts. There are few Hero identities that it makes sense to pass on. Green Lantern and Blue Beetle are the ones that immediately come to mind since the identity is based on an object.

I guess Robins count since Batman's sidekick is always Robin. It seems weird to me that there's so many of them.

Here I'd say I don't know how much of the writing can be bad since it's the same writer that wrote the entire Ultimate Spider-man run with Peter before it. So maybe people just don't like Miles as a character. I can't rule race out as some factor in it but I wouldn't say it was the only reason.

[truxillogical]

The Flash was also a successful legacy character. Jay Garrick held the title in the Golden Age, Barry Allen took his inspiration from Garrick when he got superpowers. His nephew Wally took on the Flash mantle after Allen died. Bart even held the title for a little while, but that didn't last long. But Wally's run as the Flash lasted a good couple of decades. In fact, he was such a successful Flash that TPTB had to completely erase him from continuity so he wouldn't outshine Barry Allen after they brought him back.

Likewise, Flash's Rogues occasionally do a legacy thing, though Mirror Master, Trickster, and for a little while Captain Boomerang are the only successful ones out of the bunch (unless you count Lisa dressing up each boyfriend after the Top as Chillblaine). Robin and Batgirl as legacy characters make sense, because they're symbols in Gotham. The Atom worked as a legacy character for the same reason Jaime's Blue Beetle was successful--the characters had a lot of respect for their predecessors, and in Choi's case, he was tapped to be the new one by Palmer.


All that said, I think legacy heroes generally work(ed) better in DC, because until recently, DC had more of a sense of history and growth to it.