Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-12-05 05:21 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-12-05 05:21 pm
[ SECRET POST #2164 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2164 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #309.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
I'm sorry about your cats. *hugs* Do you want to talk about them?
My fandoms are a little strange right now. I'm trying to abstain from fandom stuff so I can focus on my novel, but my presence here is probably a testament to how well that's going. I'm currently into Elementary; Doctor Who (to some extent, I'm not really liking Moffat's storylines); MLP: Friendship is Magic; the Temeraire series; one of the few good YA series, the first book of which is called Croak; I want to read The Diviners by Libba Bray but I haven't had time to devour it; Harry Potter fanfic (is that a thing? I could take or leave the books but some of the fic is just stunning); the musical version of Wicked; TRON (mostly the universe, not the characters); and various other random odds and ends.
What I'm actually writing for is a completely different story - I'm writing (or am supposed to be writing) fics for Inception, TRON (which is a fucking lovely universe to play with, so much detail and structure and just yay), MLP, the Portal universe, several original fics, and an essay for English 101. I'm lumping the last two in because I define "fandom" as "love discussing/obsessing about this piece of media, possibly too much" and, well, they fit. Now, if only I could write my essay on, say, why the Sherlock Holmes in Elementary is more of a complex character than the one in Sherlock, and I'd have it done in an hour.
But nooooo! "It's literature!" he says. "It'll build character!" he says. "It'll broaden your blah blah blah."
Gotta go make tortellini and film a couple things for class. Be back later.
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
I'll leave out which is "better" because that's largely a matter of opinion.I am so, so biased and it is so, so obvious. Also, CBS is Elementary, BBC is Sherlock.BBC!Sherlock is always right, no doubt about it, if you think he's wrong then you are an awful person and unworthy of respect (Anderson, Sally, etc.). If you are a "good" character, you recognize Sherlock's brilliance and open all doors for him and cater to his every whim (John, Mrs. Hudson, etc.). If you don't fit into one of those two boxes, you are an antagonist (Moriarty, villain of the week). The only two that don't sort neatly are Mycroft and Adler, both of whom are supposedly smarter than Sherlock anyway.
CBS!Sherlock, on the other hand, tends to be wrong sometimes. The best example I can think of is the one in "Child Predator" which as a side note also has the best title ever. Sherlock gets duped, and figures it out. He's not wrong all the time, but he's not perfect either. He's got a more realistic version of cold reading (which is basically all Sherlock Holmes does in the first place), rather than BBC!Sherlock's magical CGI-aided scan thing.
The other major difference between them is how they treat others. BBC!Sherlock tends to act like the world revolves around him, which I suppose is only fair since it basically does. CBS!Sherlock doesn't. The latter, even if he may not like the people he works with, realizes that sometimes he is in fact accountable to them and behaves accordingly (i.e. telling Gregson that he's in rehab, even when it clearly is an uncomfortable and painful subject). BBC!Sherlock treats John like a doormat, and John act like it (getting Sherlock tea or whatever while Sherlock just lays on the couch putting nicotine patches on his arms). In Elementary, on the other hand, this exchange occurs:
Joan (puttering in kitchen): I'm making coffee.
Sherlock: *holds his mug out from the other room, not looking up*
Joan: *rolls her eyes* It'll be here whenever you want it.
She has a spine, and while the loyal-follower thing is a great dynamic, it's a little... black-and-white, especially because a TV show isn't constrained by the need for John to follow Sherlock around and report on everything he does.
Basically CBS!Sherlock is more varied. He has failings, the other characters' lives go on without him, he has reasons for being like he is, he can actually be wrong sometimes. BBC!Sherlock is this cold reptilian demigod to whom characters exist only in relation to how important they are to him. I mean, to some extent that should happen because he's one of the main characters and the story follows him, but to the same extent, the characters should at least seem like real people, and real people's lives don't just stop when the main character wanders out of their field of vision.
Sorry for the lateness; I got... sidetracked.
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
I do really like Lucy Liu's Watson though, just for like...not taking so much shit. Though equally I feel like John's a grown man and he can make his own choices as to how he spends his time.
I still love both because they just do completely different things for me. BBC Sherlock is this sort of magnificent bastard who I love to watch. CBS Sherlock is a dude who you feel like could be an actual human.
I'm wondering what would happen is Joan Watson were assigned to BBC Sherlock instead of CBS lol
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
(Anonymous) 2012-12-06 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)I don't mean to say that Elementary!Holmes isn't shown to be wrong (and for it to not be a big deal) more often than BBC!Sherlock — that's true. It's also true that he is more varied, and is more clearly shown as being only one character among a cast that has different lives and storylines in which he is not always a direct factor.
At the same time, I think you're being really disingenuous about BBC!Sherlock? He is quite often shown as making the wrong assumptions — he thinks the passenger of the cab is the murderer in A Study in Pink, he gets completely steamrolled over in the first half of A Scandal In Belgravia (despite the ending, which I despise and will not attempt to defend), he makes mistake upon mistake in The Hounds of Baskerville, and everything spins right out of his control in The Reichenbach Fall. The fact that he doesn't empathize with the victims of crimes is clearly said to be a massive failing, and one that eventually comes back to bite him in the arse.
Anderson and Sally are not shown as awful people unworthy of respect, either; they're shown as people who dislike Sherlock and sometimes act like dicks when he's around, but then he is a dick to them more often then not, something which the narrative doesn't attempt to disguse. Eventually, Sally turning against him in TRF doesn't come out of nowhere, doesn't happen simply because she dislikes him, but is the result of her believing him — because of evidence Moriarty had planted — to have committed crimes and kidnapped children.
As for the old "John caters to Sherlock's every whim" argument, it's really, really superficial, and only upheld by people who conveniently forget that, for instance, John confronts Sherlock quite sternly about his lack of empathy in The Great Game, and an entire conversation between them hinges around the fact that he's disappointed in him because of it. Or that he clearly and completely refuses to give in to him in the opening of THoB, when Sherlock is manic with a need for cigarettes and John shoots him down coolly and plainly. Or that he berates him when Sherlock doesn't act with the compassion and kindness that a man who's been heavily traumatized over the course of several months requires. Or that the Sherlock just lays on the couch putting nicotine patches on his arms scene that you mention happens exactly once, in the very first episode, and the only reason John hastened to his side was because he thought Sherlock was in danger (and that it doesn't happen again, at all, tea or not, so I'm wondering why you assume it to be a regular occurance). Or that he makes it very, very clear that Sherlock drugging him in THoB was wrong, and that Sherlock isn't forgiven for it. Or that when Sherlock appears to care very little about Mrs Hudson in TRF, John instantly and quite furiously calls him out on it.
Come on. There are many criticisms to be aimed at this show, I'm not denying it, but the "John doesn't have a spine and Sherlock is always right" argument is fallacious. I like both of these shows, very much, and the way people tend to glorify the one by bashing the other is ridiculous and annoying; people need to stop inventing flaws about either show the better to support their argument, especially when there are already flaws aplenty to discuss.
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
(Anonymous) 2012-12-06 04:22 am (UTC)(link)Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
Have you written anything for Inception?
Re: Hi, OP, I'm a Doctor Who fan.
(Anonymous) 2012-12-06 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)