fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2176 ]

[ SECRET POST #2176 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2176 ⌋

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Notes:

Sorry for late, busy day.

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #311.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm a woman who's interested in equality, and I can't stand the feminist community.

All the awful histrionics, terrible intellectual void arguments, oppression olympics, kid gloves, and straight up lies.

I think they're pretty much exclusively responsible for the development of MRAs. lol yes lets ignore de-marginalise, and whine whenever prison rape, inequality in custody hearings, circumcision, domestic abuse of men, and conscription come up. I'm sure giving these people a pat on the head and maybe a 'patriarchy hurts men too' comment see we're addressing it! won't drive them off to form their own splinter groups which are inevitably going to go straight cray cray.

Oh and enthusiastic consent, the idea that any alcohol equals rape. Like no, just because I had a couple glasses of wine with a guy doesn't mean I didn't fully consent, what is wrong with you.

THANK you. I've wanted to say that for a long time.

Honestly, for me it's the HEAS segment of the movement that's driving me away from third wave feminism. Because it's just. Pure. Bullshit. Plugging your fingers in your ears and screeching whenever a study that comes out showing lowered life expectancy or greater risk of disease for the obese is utterly moronic, and how the fuck did it become part of the feminist equality movement, anyway?

Those people make me so angry given that I've had family members who suffered from obesity-related illness, I mean, my grandmother died from obesity-related illness

Sure there are some people who are kind of fat who are healthy but that doesn't mean you can be as fat as you want and not have to deal with heart disease, diabetes etc.

HEAS?

Health at every size.

The movement got it's start as working against fat shaming, but they very quickly left their original monikers sentiment behind to become fat acceptance.

The problem is, health is actually pretty strongly tied to size. You get plenty of unhealthy skinny people who eat like shit sure, but the reverse is rarely nearly as true.

Add to that the obesity crisis in the US, and the fact that generally people aren't talking merely a bit chubby, it all becomes rather questionable.

Ah, that's unfortunate.

I mean, yes, don't fat sham people. That's wrong. But don't lie and say everyone is healthy at every size. Anorexic people aren't healthy just like morbidly obese people aren't healthy. (Not in the same way, but I digress.)

*sigh* That's actually quite sad because I find it probably turns people away from the legitimate anti-fat shamming movement.

And HAES is connected with feminism? If it started with body image stuff I guess I can see why. Hmm... Thank you for letting me know.

...but that's not even the point of HAES? HAES is about encouraging people to try and eat right and exercise regardless of how much they weigh or how likely they are to lose weight as a result. The message isn't "sit on your ass all day because you're healthy no matter what you do or eat," it's "take care of yourself even if you don't lose weight from it, because there are other benefits besides being a size 4."

Like, I don't doubt that there are people in the fat acceptance movement who do the plug-your-ears thing, but that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of it.

Re: Non-fandom confessions/unpopular opinions!

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-18 18:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom confessions/unpopular opinions!

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-18 19:02 (UTC) - Expand

IA with all of this

Pretty much this.

The mainstream feminist community is alienating too many people. Sex-workers, women of color, transgender people and gay people, to name a few. People are splintering off into separate groups now. I know quite a few sex-positives who've joined forces with some MRAs actually, because they shared goals and view points.

Yeah, and also, what if two people are both drunk when they have sex. Are they raping each other or something? I know rad-fems would say that the female is the victim and the man is the perp, even if they were both drunk as fuck. But what if they were lesbians or something?

But what if they were lesbians or something?

The way you phrased this is funny to me.

Honest curiosity: how many sex workers really are 100% doing it by choice?

How many people are doing any job 100% by choice?

I doubt you'll be able to find a statistic since a lot of research into the community is done by people outside the community intent on "saving" people, and even if sex workers outline their reasoning for doing said work and why they feel that it's their choice, you'll still get people calling that into question and undermining it. There are people who are forced into it and there are some terrible things that go on, but that is not the entirety of sex work, and it's not doing anyone any favors for people to go in with this mentality that all sex workers are victims.

Re: Non-fandom confessions/unpopular opinions!

diet_poison - 2012-12-18 20:32 (UTC) - Expand

They aren't sex workers exactly, but something to the linguistic side of exploring that argument is Kira Hall's "Lip Service on the Fantasy Lines". It's talking about phone sex, which is of course much, much safer than prostitution, but the way women can manipulate male expectations and society assumptions is very brilliantly outlined.

/slides out

IA

The feminist community taught me what gaslighting is and how wrong it is, but I feel like I'm being gaslighted by so much of the stuff they say. About how if I don't think my experience as a woman has been that horrible, I'm wrong but too heavily under the drug of the patriarchy to notice. How no woman in her right mind doesn't worry about being beaten and raped by every man she knows.

I'm starting to believe them. I doubt the validity of my feelings more than ever. It's scary.

To be fair I don't think the whole feminist movement is like this? But some of it DEFINITELY is.

Also, when those specific issues pertaining to men come up, if they come up in a feminist forum/community, wouldn't they technically be off-topic?

That said, if someone straight-up told me that male/male prison rape or male circumcision (for example) aren't ~real~ issues I'd be pissed.

NAYRT

Re:the issues pertaining to men, they wouldn't necessarily be off topic. It would be a dick move to use them to derail talk about unrelated issues, but a lot of the issues that anon mentioned above are tied in with the patriarchy, which is definitely something that feminists should be interested in talking about. You can still acknowledge those issues without ignoring or downplaying the shit that women go through. It's shitty to, say, bring up the fact that men can also be rape victims to make rape of women look like a less serious problem, but it's also shitty for people to refuse to acknowledge the fact that men can also be rape victims in those discussions and make comments about men's tears and similar bullshit.

Kinda sounds like when this sort of thing comes up in any feminist conversation it's really hard to say something that won't get you called out one way or another lol.

I don't think everyone in the feminist community is like that. I've yet to meet an extremist. Most people I've seen are more moderate and often in WS courses we talk about everyone else except women!

More often I see people who generalize and lump feminists together into the 'femnazi' group, which is a shame.

Sorry you met some crazies OP. We aren't all like that.

I feel this way also.

And I'm genuinely curious who all these horrible "mainstream feminists" are, because I really don't see those kind of "femnazi" messages much. Just because you've got a blog doesn't mean you're mainstream or speak for everyone.

There are a lot of different feminist communities. Some of them hate each other! I'm sure you could find some community of like-minded people to join if you wanted one. And if you don't want to join such a community, then don't.

Nah, anon, for me understanding 'equality' is to understand that women can be as vicious, cruel, manipulative, as willing to abuse and rape, as much men. It means thinking that men can be just as vulnerable, that women are definitely smart enough to understand the way the world works and twist it to their advantage. It means treating a female abuser just as harshly as a male abuser instead of having a woman beating a man to be funny. That's what equality means to me. It's not treating women as beings to be protected (kid gloves, as you say), because that still comes from misogyny. If you believe the man is always the perpetrator, then you are slotting the whole female sex into the position of a 'victim' who really has no power over what she does or what is done to her, which is just part of the whole vicious cycle.

tl;dr I think you're perfectly right

There is a middle ground you know. And everything you said is absolutely right but those aren't the only issues that exist.

I agree, especially on the alcohol argument. Know why? I remember, even in my drunken stupor, that I'd have jumped my now-bf's bones had I NOT been drunk.

Was that me being so damn impaired I couldn't have meant that? Or, if I had decided to, that I didn't mean to do it?

No, fuck that. I knew exactly what I said, so that "all alcohol=rape" thing needs to fucking die.

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[ SECRET POST #2176 ]

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