fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2177 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2177 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Motivation doesn't matter, resources do. The cause will be there, but without guns the outcome could be far less deadly.

All guns being banned is stupid. There are a lot of people in this country who still hunt for food and survival. Banning automatic rifles and the like would, I think, at least limit these types of mass shootings. Without the auto spray of bullets you have to work more and kill less.

Frankly, I think banning automatic weapons, period, would be the right step. I support hunting and range shooting but there's really no reason anyone has to own an automatic (or semi-automatic) weapon in their home.

Bad cops. People who want to kill you for being different.

There. Two reasons. Sometimes the same! America is a lovely and peaceloving place where we never ever ever attack racial, religious or sexual minorities.

What makes automatic weapons a necessity in either of those cases?

Because the kind of people who attack you* are going to have automatic weapons. It's a Pandora's Box situation.

I don't know about you, but when I think about those who will obey a federal assault weapons ban it doesn't include hateful bigots who hate the federal government.

Nations turn authoritarian really fast. I don't have idiotic "end all the crimes" fantasies. I'm just afraid of what might happen to this country in a few years. Do you want a bunch of far right theocrats to have a monopoly on violence?

They're supporting imprison-the-gays laws in Africa. Do you think they're going to be nice if they get more power here?

*This is a general "you"

Uh, that response went to a weird place. What does any of this have to do with homophobia? Because I support gun control, I support killing gays in Uganda? What?

Also 1) fighting assault rifles with assault rifles isn't a real thing. If someone shoots you with an assault rifle, you are going to be hurt and/or die whether you're holding a revolver or an Uzi.

2) Do you have nothing to say about the overwhelming actual real-life evidence that countries with tighter gun control have fewer gun fatalities?

Because I support gun control, I support killing gays in Uganda? What?

That's a pretty dramatic misreading of what I said. I'm saying that the very people supporting anti-gay laws may very well be in power over us in a few years. A lot of people think history goes in one direction, some kind of farcical upward trajectory toward better times. The fact of the matter is that progress is never a given and often regresses dramatically.

fighting assault rifles with assault rifles isn't a real thing.
...I think you might want to look at the history of twentieth century wars.

Do you have nothing to say about the overwhelming actual real-life evidence that countries with tighter gun control have fewer gun fatalities?

Those countries aren't the US, which has a different (usually not in a good way) culture. And that has nothing to do with the fact that we already have a lot of guns here and they won't magically go away just because they're banned. I'd be far more supportive of federal gun control if I thought for a moment it would actually work.

Instead, all it's going to do is disarm the nice people while leaving automatic weapons in the hands of the police and those who would really like to use automatic weapons.

I'm not talking about crime. I'm talking about cultural shifts over the next couple decades and possible oppression. The fact that things are nice now doesn't mean they'll be nice twenty years from now.

I still have absolutely no idea how you got from "gun control" to "homophobic theocrats in Africa." I mean, I genuinely have no clue how the discussion went there or why you're continuing to talk about it. I have no idea how this logic has formed in your head and you're not doing a good job of explaining it.

...I think you might want to look at the history of twentieth century wars.

For someone that just accused me of misreading, you had a serious misreading of what I said.

You said that you can't fight automatic weapons with automatic weapons. Syria would like to have a word with you. Of course bullets kill people. I'm not trying to claim that a gun is some kind of magical shield that gives you +3 resistance against metal.

Okay. I'll break this down.

The United States as an independent state was born out of an act of armed insurgency. Independence would have been impossible in the 1770s-early 1780s without this. We are far from the only country like this. Ireland's a decent modern example. It may be a better one.

One of the reasons--among many--the second amendment was put in the Constitution was to enable armed resistance to unjust authority.

Disarming the American public would eliminate the possibility of resisting armed authority. Armed authority isn't always good. Sometimes armed authorities become oppressive toward racial, ethnic, religious or sexual minorities. I'm an academic; oppressive regimes tend to disappear people like me. It'd be nice if we could resist that.

The theocrats I mentioned are American politicians and other powerful people who openly support oppressive laws against LGBT people in Africa, to the extent that they bankroll campaigns to oppress gay people. If they got into power in the US I doubt they'd start being nice to American LGBTs. That's one possible scenario.

Unfortunately a lot of pro-gun rights people on the internet are all MUH GUNS and I WILL END ALL CRIME WITH THIS UZI. I'm talking about bigger historical and cultural phenomena. If we ban guns now something really, really shitty might happen in 2050.

So should every country start collecting automatic weapons? Assault rifles? Uzis? Rocket launchers? Just in case their government up and turns oppressive one day? Christ.

That's a very simplistic reading of what I just wrote, yes.

Look. I would love a world in which there are no automatic weapons. That is utopia. But in my country an automatic weapons ban isn't really an automatic weapons ban. It merely attempts to keep civilians from having them while local police departments keep buying more and more military equipment and our military gets more and more good at surveillance. I'm not a conspiracy theorist--I think the government is full of people who legitimately mean well--but this is a bad idea for the United States in context of American culture right now.

I'm uncomfortable in a still rather bigoted country that's working hard to give statistically more bigoted groups a monopoly on violence.

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