[ SECRET POST #2181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 (again) - repeat ], [ 4 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm all for different beliefs, but I don't get why people think heaven is more likely to be a pretty lie than not-heaven being a not-pretty lie.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[diorama]

Because heaven is something that has yet to be proven. If someone says "my grandfather is in heaven*" I'm like, that's nice, so please show me how heaven exists.

I don't have to prove anything, I don't need to prove a negative.

*My grandfather was an atheist, so it pisses me off particularly when my family members keep saying that.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yes, but nothing about what happens after death, if anything, has been proven. So really, Heaven is as likely as nothingness, at least as far as provable truth goes.

I'm not pushed myself, I'm presuming I'll find out when I get there (or, you know, vanish, but it'll still count as an answer). But for now, we don't know either way. It's just supposition on all sides of the fence.

[(Anonymous)]

We do know that the parts of the brain that govern consciousness stop functioning, so yeah we pretty much have proof that nothing happens.

[(Anonymous)]

... They've isolated the parts of the brain that produce consciousness, as opposed to just facilitate it? When did that happen?

[(Anonymous)]

Here's the thing. Given what we understand about medicine, the body, the brain, etc., we know that consciousness ceases to exist upon death, unless something magic happens.

Maybe something magic does happen, but that claim requires evidence in order to be believed. Without that evidence, it's reasonable to provisionally reject the claim that magic is occurring, and that nothing more than we can demonstrate to be true is happening.

Magic and not-magic are not equivalent positions. We have plenty of experience with not-magic; we can point to any number of examples of reality behaving according to natural laws and principles with entirely non-magical causes and explanations. Not-magic is the norm. Magic, on the other hand, requires meaningful evidence before it can even be seriously entertained as a possibility. Is this not your own experience with reality?

[(Anonymous)]

Except we don't know that consciousness ceases to exist after death, not in the sense of having proof, anyway. We don't have the means to test for non-biological consciousness as yet, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that we don't have the means to interact with it. The fact that the only form of consciousness we have means to test is the one attached to a living biological (human) brain doesn't mean that form is the only one that exists.

[(Anonymous)]

We know what causes consciousness, what is this bullshit you're spewing? It sounds like you're in denial, to be honest.

[(Anonymous)]

... As far as I've read on the matter, while neuroscience has allowed a degree of tracking of consciousness in the brain, there is no conclusive evidence of the mechanism by which consciousness emerges from the brain as yet. There's still some trouble over even an operational definition of the term. Have you read something different?

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, for real, this is about as ridiculous as suggesting that human evolution hasn't been proven because we still haven't found the last missing link between the genus Homo and the genus Australopithicine.

Like, okay, maybe that's true, and maybe technically that means it's not been proven, but really - it's pretty damn well close to being proven, and at this point you're just resorting to denial.

[(Anonymous)]

We do not know the cause of consciousness. We have not yet found the mechanism by which it is produced. We may assume that biological function in the brain has a lot to do with it, since brain function correlates strongly with reports of consciousness. However, correlation is not causation. It probably is, as you've said, but we don't have proof yet. And until we do, there are a range of options that cannot be conclusively ruled out.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yeah actually, bullshit fantasy can be ruled out.

[(Anonymous)]

Now you've gone and thrown the argument out the window.

[(Anonymous)]

No, I haven't. Your argument is that bullshit fantasy is a valid scientific hypothesis. Mine is that you're being ridiculous in suggesting that.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a different anon. I think that you've thrown the argument out the window by resorting to insults ("bullshit fantasy," "ridiculous").

[(Anonymous)]

Okay.

It's just hard to argue with people that think fairytales and magic and shit are real.

[(Anonymous)]

It's just hard to argue with people that think fairytales and magic and shit are real.

Fixed that for you.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I think that all the anon above you said was that we haven't conclusively determined what causes "consciousness" (or what definitely constitutes "consciousness").

[visp]

Magic and not-magic are not equivalent positions.

I should get that embroidered on a pillow somewhere.