[ SECRET POST #2181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 (again) - repeat ], [ 4 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

And I've never been able to understand the concept of believing one's soul exists. Consciousness, I know (for a practical, I'm sitting here typing this value of know) exists. But I don't get how people can believe in more than what they see every day, whether that belief is religious or scientific. I'm willing to accept that there's lots of scientific stuff going on that exists that I don't understand, which is a sort of faith, mostly that there are lots of people out there with more brains than I'd know what to do with. But religious stuff I don't get. And by religious stuff I mean everything from reincarnation to ghosts to eternal paradise or eternal torment. It all seems like wishful thinking to me, and I don't mean that to sound insulting. I envy believers their belief, or their faith, I guess, because I've never understood how they can have it. I'd believe if I could because I fear not existing someday, but I can't, anymore than I can believe I'd fly if I flapped my arms hard enough. Just hoping something is true doesn't make it so.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, maybe this could help. If -- knock on wood -- you were to die tomorrow, would that death be any more important in a broad sense than the death of an isolated oak tree?

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

but uh, I can answer for myself. The answer is 'no'. It would obviously matter more to me while it was happening, and to the people that cared about me, but of course it's not more important than any other thing dying or being born. Nothing's important, in a broad sense. You do realize how big the universe is?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Good, that's a reasonable answer. Now, why would it be important to the people who cared about you?

[(Anonymous)]

Because humans are social animals who form strong bonds with one another, which is how we've been so far very successful as a species, at least in the relative short term?

I have no idea where you're going with this.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, good, that's also a reasonable answer.

Why would it be wrong for another person to kill you tomorrow? (Not saying that I want that to happen, God forbid!)

[(Anonymous)]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Look, I know where this is going now, and it's just as bullshit a place as I feared it might be.

Yes, morals are created by humans as a sort of lie we tell ourselves to make sense of the world. They are not a part of the natural world and no one has ever tried to claim they are. They exist only in our heads, but they are real nonetheless etc etc.

Here's the thing though. The concept of a soul and life after death - they are not real in the natural world and the funny thing is they're not real in our heads either because when we die our mind stops functioning and we can no longer believe or rationalize anything to ourselves.

It's not the same thing at all and you damn well know it.

[(Anonymous)]

Our mind stops functioning and we can no longer believe or rationalize anything to ourselves.

Nitpicking: our brains stop functioning.

Anyway, you're a little off-track on where I was going (though you probably haven't stuck around for my answer!). If your personal death is unimportant (beyond the emotional impact it will have on the people who "care" about you, which is just an expression of the animal bonds they've formed), then your existence is exactly equal to that of an isolated oak tree. If you set aside the law and the morals our society has developed, someone gunning you down tomorrow (again, knock on wood) would be no "different" than someone chopping down an oak tree.

You freaked out enough when you thought I was bringing the concept of morals into this thread. I don't think you'd be too happy at having your sense of self-importance reduced to the same level as that of a non-sapient tree.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Uh... I don't get why you think this is news to me.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things I am no more important than anyone or anything else that is alive. And? What's your point?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, it is wishful thinking. That's what hope/belief/faith is, you know something might be unlikely, but you like to think it's possible, in some way you don't understand yet, because we're always learning. People can fly, all across the world, into space, onto our own moon. That was the stuff of imagination once, totally wishful thinking, with very silly frameworks (like wings made of feathers and wax, or flapping one's arms). But that didn't make the end result itself impossible. Just outside the reach of our comprehension, for a time.

That's how it works for me, anyway. I hope, and that hope's sustained by how much I can't know about what can exist and what can't.

[(Anonymous)]

I am definitely not in the best position to answer this, and I have a feeling this may come across as incoherent rambling, but here goes:

While we all live in the same world (well, most of us anyway), no person experiences the world, or even the experience of living, the same way. Sometimes people end up believing in reincarnation/heaven/ghosts/etc. because they have memories of past lives, have out of body experiences, see ghostly apparitions, have prophetic dreams, were revived after being pronounced dead, have memories or visions of heaven, or any other experience that leads one to the conclusion of some kind of continued existence. Regardless of what you personally feel about their experiences, it does not change the fact that these individuals have deep-seated beliefs due to personal experiences.

But most of the time these “experiences” are a lot more subtle. What it really comes down to is having this sense of wonder, a feeling that there is so much more to reality than what we see. Thousands of years ago, some cultures had beliefs that our world exists right next to (or on top of) a sort of divine world, and that nature, the sky, the stars, the sun, the moon, the trees, and all that exists within it (including us) are sacred. And to some, it certainly still seems that way, especially when we witness a wondrous sunset, the might of the sea, or acts of charity and compassion. Some people are ok with the belief that the world’s creation was an accident, and the fact that life exists as it now does is complete chance. Others see evidence of design, and thus the possibility of a designer enters the arena (and of course, the nature of this designer and its involvement (if any) with humanity is debated). Some people believe love to be nothing more than hormones and chemicals in the brain at work, while others believe that that process is divine in origin. The primary directive of most religions is to show humans how to live a compassionate life. The gods and names and cultural context differ, but ultimately that’s their purpose, something I wish most adherents of religions would understand. And of course, one can easily say they don’t need religion to be a good and compassionate person, which I agree with, but that would not negate the existence (or nonexistence) of a divine presence. I’ve heard some people say that if a divine source was present, it would want us to come to the conclusion that we should be good because it’s the right thing to do, which is something I agree with.

Basically, faith and belief is something that you either have or you don’t. And I know that’s not a satisfying answer, but there’s no way to force someone to have faith. That would be something they need to find on their own. Beliefs can change, sometimes multiple times (mine certainly did). Life ultimately is a journey (cliché, but true), and no one travels the same path. You have difficulty understanding why someone would believe in something beyond what they see, but faith isn’t something you can just measure in a lab. This is by no means a perfect analogy, but it’s like asking a poet, a painter, or a musician why they chose that word/that color/that note. It’s just something that resonates with you.