fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2182 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2182 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[incorrectly labeled a repeat]

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Notes:

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Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Sorry, I don't want to start any wank, I was just hoping if someone could clarify a difference for me so I can wrap my head around it.

http://flappingphysicist.tumblr.com/post/38473780680/if-you-poke-fun-at-justin-bieber-or-1d-or-any-other-cis

If you poke fun at Justin Bieber or 1D or any other cis heterosexual pop culture figure by insinuating that they are gay, you are perpetuating homophobia. If you tack on a piece about the guy actually being a girl/having a vagina, you’re contributing to trans*phobia.

Bolded part relevant. Basically, I was wondering why it was transphobia to imply a boy is a girl rather than femalephobia (that would be misogyny? sexist??) since isn't the statement going "Bieber is less of a man therefore he is a girl which is negative"?
Or can it be both? Or is there overlap?
Is it something else?

I'd like to get the definitions right in my head basically.

Sorry to just leave this here, I need to go catch some planes but I'll probably be on and off between flights

*but I'll probably be on and off FS between flights

* I'm confused because the leading paragraph talks about transphobia then clarifies it as misogyny and then I thought myself into circles.

My initial reaction would be that it was misogyny, since they're using the implication he's a girl to be negative. However, I *can* see how someone could take as being trans*phobic.

So, I'd say it's probably one of those things that's just in a grey area between the two.

It can be both at the same time, imo. I'm a guy with a vagina, and I think that's an awesome thing to be, and it shouldn't be used as an insult. And women are awesome too, and being a woman shouldn't be used as an insult. And setting up a hierarchy where guys that aren't square-jawed or beardy or muscular or be-penised enough are moved down the ranks toward being a woman is degrading to both women and trans guys.

It's kind of terrible in multiple ways. There's levels of terrible-ness to the comment, it's not terrible in just one way.

I think it's both. I absolutely get the misogyny vibe from the whole "hahaha you're a ~girl~" thing.

It's both.

The people insulting Bieber are being sexist and transphobic. Sexist against men for holding it against a man for not looking masculine enough. Sexist against women for making femininity a bad trait. Sexist against trans* for making female and maleness combined a bad thing, or for insulting someone for daring to seem more like their non-biological gender.

I think that the original piece has omitted the important aspect of sexism/misogyny that is inherent in describing whtaever cis-gendered male as having a vagina, because the statement acn, and usually is IME, be both sexist and transphobic.

1) It can suggest that having a vagina (read female characteristics) is something to be ashamed of: sexist/misogynist

2) It can suggest that not conforming to traditional gender steretypes is also something to be ashamed of: transphobic

ayrt/OP

Yeah, in the original piece I thought the main paragraph made sense, but then in the second paragraph it didn't mention the transphobia at all and I got pretty confused because I find it hard to remember the terms themselves so I'm concentrating on both the meaning of each term, then trying to apply it to the scenario and get very confused *_*

To be honest I still do not think that Bieber joke is transphobic. If anything it's a bit homophobic, as they're stating he looks like what a traditional lesbian *looks* like. (IE-Butch with feminine features)

The thing is, these men are presenting as men. By saying that "they're really a girl/have a vagina" they're dismissing the fact that these people are self identified and presenting as men. So yeah, that's where I'd say people would get the transphobia from.

But are they actually claiming that those men are presenting as women?

If you're talking about "the guy actually being a girl/having a vagina," they are claiming that they are women and not really men. They are saying they present as men, but are "actually a girl". Which is transphobic.

It's not about presenting as women, it's about presenting as men yet being called a woman (because of a vagina, or whatever else they think is a "real" man).

However, none of them are claiming to be able to verify the presence of the vagina, they are supposedly inferring its existence from the behavior of the men they are mocking, so I think they're claiming they are presenting as women. --Which could still be taken as transphobic, since it presumes all women have vaginas.

I don't know why I'm arguing about this. The jokes are stupid and narrow-minded whichever way you look at them, and since people are taking them as transphobic they function as transphobic in addition to however else they are offensive. Whatever. I just suspect that essentially transphobic jokes would have a layer of venom and fear missing from anatomical variants old, tired "ha ha that guy acts like a girl" jokes.

Eh, I think we just read/interpreted it differently. I don't think one is right or wrong really.

Transphobia and homophobia are both closely tied to sexism, and there's a lot of overlap.

The statement implies: a) that his feminine features make him "less" of a man, and b) if he had a vagina, he would not be a "real" man. The former is the sexism (implying that one must conform to certain gender stereotypes in order to "be" their gender), while the latter is the transphobia (implying that one's gender is determined by their genitalia).

The joke about Justin Bieber looking like a lesbian is about his haircut, because many people making the joke know many lesbians with that haircut. So, if you need to slot it into some kind of -ism framework, maybe it's haircutism.

[ SECRET POST #2182 ]

Quick Question on Transphobia

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