fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2185 ]

[ SECRET POST #2185 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2185 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]

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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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15. http://i.imgur.com/pc3Ux.jpg?1
[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]

aside from the "sublots"

I feel the same way you do, nonnie, especially in shows where the romance is about as subtle as an anvil hitting you on the head.

Ugh, yes. Just once, I'd like a show where nobody hooks up or gives even a hint they ever would hook up. Not that it'll stop the shippers because bitches be crazy, but I could at least enjoy the canon a little more without the romance shit getting in the way.

You can hate it without being broken... but you'll make a lot less money so it's never gonna be made.

Thing is, TV shows need to be profitable. A lot of people like the romance, so they cater to that.

Personally, I like it in some cases, but it annoys me in others. What mostly bugs me is that there aren't nearly enough well-written friendships (especially male-female ones) to balance it out.

+1

And, essentially, if one wants a romance-free work, they should go take a look at books or films. It's not a TV thing.

tbh I don't think there a whole lot of well-written romances either. :I

(though there's still an awful lot of it. I want some friendships too!)

*sigh*

I honestly know where you're coming from but I can't condemn romantic subplots because of the good ones I like in shows.

I mean, I groan when it becomes obvious that one is going to happen. Mostly because I assume it's going to be bad and normally the characters have nothing in common. So, therefore, it will be taking away from the plot. (The reason I was watching the show in the first place.) However, there are those times when the romantic subplot makes sense. It doesn't subtract from the major plot and, in fact, adds to it instead. It's a part of my whole experience and not just some tacked on gangly thing that the bad ones can be.

So... I think my problem is less that they exist but that a lot of writers assume it must be done to have a good story. Because of this assumption they shove one in whether it should be there or not. Then because of that the writing is normally not of the best quality and really, it's all just one long downhill spiral.

I believe that instead of thinking of romantic subplots as a must in stories we need to change that and start seeing them as a tool to make a better story. But here's the deal, just like a person shouldn't use a screwdriver on a nail, so too should a writer be wondering if a romantic subplot is the tool they should be using for their story. So these writers need to ask themselves: What is my story trying to say? Does my romantic subplot say the same thing? If not, why? If it does, is it this the best way to express what I'm saying? If it isn't, why? If it is, does it seem natural? Does it come out of nowhere? Does it make sense?

And these are only a few questions. There are probably more. Hopefully this will do either one of two things; it will either get rid of a bad romantic subplot or improve it to be an addition to the story, rather than a subtraction.

...Well that's a bit too hopeful but, you know, a girl can dream.

As an apiring writer, I really like this explanation. :)

(no subject)

forgottenjester - 2012-12-28 03:12 (UTC) - Expand

I do not mind romance subplots because I really can't think of any examples where the romance was bad and there were not ALSO really obviously bad elements to other parts of the show as well, particularly in the characterization of the main protagonists. So, to me, it's usually bad characters, bad romance; good characters, good romance. It's rarely the case that this doesn't happen.

Heh, I'm the opposite. I'm less inclined to watch a show if I hear there's absolutely no romance in it.

Stupid romance can gtfo. Good romance, on the other hand, is as necessary a part of the plot as any other. Romantic subplots aren't automatically bad.

Nothing wrong with not liking romance.

Also, just because many people ship in fandom doesn't mean that all of them want a lot of romance in canon. A lot of people are perfectly happy to ship non-canon pairings, for example, and many people use fic to explore themes or material that isn't in canon.

Supernatural comes close with the no romance, at least until the later seasons.

Are you kidding? Dean's slept with nearly every woman they've met.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-27 03:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-27 07:25 (UTC) - Expand

I dislike romantic subplots if the romance is not in any way important to the main plot. If somehow the romance adds to the characters motivations to complete the main plot, or complicates the solution to the main plot in an interesting and non-cheap way, then I'm all for it. But if it's just there because the producers feel that no one would be interested in a story about robot battles without two random humans making out at some point, then I feel like banging my head.

An example of a romance not working was the Startrek reboot. You could literally cut every single the Uhura/Spock romantic scene and have no non-Uhura/Spock scene be impacted by the loss. A romance that did work was in Contagion, because it was there solely to show how the infection impacted normal human behavior, of which romance and the longing for love is one of them. It would change the whole tone of the movie to have it missing.

Arguably, LotR made it work, too. Aragorn's biggest motivation to stop fearing his heritage and take back his throne was to win the right to ask Elrond for Arwen's hand. It was something I thought the movies did a much better job of explaining than the books did, honestly.

(no subject)

velvet_mace - 2012-12-27 02:37 (UTC) - Expand

I am totally all for no romantic subplots. Won't stop me from shipping, of course; I ship through subtext, whether it's intentional or not. But it would be super-nice not to see the "will-they-won't-they" dance so often.

Is the picture used for this secret from a TV show? If so, what is this show!?!?!?!!! It looks gorgeous. If it is, infact, only a random picture, please ignore my nerdyness.

I would love that, tbh. There are more character arcs that are interesting out there that don't feature in them at any point 'and then they hook up.'

Elementary's doing okay on this front so far, but they've still tripped over a few of Joan's exes and Sherlock's prostitutes and casual fuckbuddies anyway. *sigh*

Edited 2012-12-27 03:24 (UTC)

Disliking romantic subplots doesn't make you an anti-shipper. Being a shipper doesn't mean you like romantic subplots.

They're entirely different issues, really, so I wouldn't worry about it much.

Try Breaking Bad.

Well, romances - like everything else in fiction - are subject to Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. You'll find a handful of brilliant ones (e.g. John/Aeryn, Roslin/Adama) but mostly hackneyed chaff, same as anything else.

That said, romances in particular can cause problems that other subplots don't, necessarily:

1) The dearth of good male/female friendships in media. As someone who's longest-lasting and closest friendships have been with men, this is particularly galling. The need for romance to appeal to certain target audiences destroys even the possibility of friendship, even if that's how it started (and results in all kind of social ills, such as the "friendzone" where in - because of this kind of media - men assume a friendship with a woman entitles them to an eventual romance).

2) The dearth of good, stable, realistic relationships. Because "romance" virtually always means "two characters falling in love" there's a severe lack of characters who are already in relationships, and stay that way (pre-existing relationships tend to exist only to be ripped apart so that the characters in them can fall in love again with someone else). As soon as characters get together, they "live happily ever after" - which is completely untrue and extremely boring. I'm sick to death of always watching the beginning phases of a romance. If someone thinks that nothing exciting ever happens within and existing relationship, certainly nothing worth writing about, then they've never had a good one. I have, and this is shit.

3) The total derailment of good female characters. It doesn't have to happen (see Aeryn, Roslin) but it so often does. As soon as she falls in love with the hero, that's all her character will be about anymore - being his girlfriend. And more likely than not, being the hero's girlfriend means he'll have to save her (even if she was tougher than him beforehand) and she'll mysteriously lose all courage and common sense just so he can accomplish this. Bllleeeeeccccchhhhh.

As a result, OP, I concur. It's part of the reason I skim the synopses of films and books that look like they might be interesting, but might also have a sappy, stereotypical romance in them. It's a dealbreaker, for sure.

And if you haven't already, may I suggest militaria? Avoid "epic" Michael Bay shit because that'll have romance in for sure, but the gritty, realistic kind (Das Boot, The Hurt Locker, Apocalypse Now) almost invariably avoids it. And fuck yeah.

One Piece ( a manga )

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