[ SECRET POST #2196 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2196 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 060 secrets from Secret Submission Post #314.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - empty image with a text comment ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I definitely don't think that liking Jon and loving Catelyn are incompatible.

I wish everyone felt this way tbh. Every damn conversation about these two ALWAYS results in everyone dividing into two camps, with the "Catelyn abused Jon and ruined his life!!!" camp on one side, and the "That whiny ungrateful little shit had the BEST LIFE EVAR, way better than all other bastards, and he should have just been thankful that sainted woman didn't have him murdered which is totally what most other women in that position would have done!!!" camp on the other.

It's all just so fucking stupid. And it's sad, because I think there's a lot of interesting things to discuss about the relationship/interactions between these two. But noooo, it always has to turn into a pissing contest about which character's feelings were more hurt.

[fauxkaren]

The kicker of it all is that Ned is the one who is really at fault for Cat and Jon having a rough time of it. (Assuming R+L=J)

Like if Cat knew the truth of Jon's parentage, she would be less hurt on a personal level that Ned was keeping Jon at Winterfell (which is the real root of her problems, NOT Jon's mere existence). Like she still might feel shamed in society at large because the rest of the world would just see Ned disrespecting her by keeping Jon at Winterfell, but on a personal level, she would probably have handled things better.

And then the source of most of Jon's angst is that he believes that he is a bastard and thus has not real position in the world and because he doesn't know who his mother is. And maybe if he knew who his real parents were, some of that angst might have been lessened?

But Ned wanted to keep everyone safe, so he keeps Jon's parentage a secret and as a result both Cat and Jon are hurt.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! To all of this! And funnily, I even feel some sympathy for Ned in this situation, if not nearly as much as I feel for Cat and Jon. R+L=J was highly dangerous information, and I get why he felt he had to keep it an absolute secret. That's not to say I think he made the right decision, but I get why he might have felt it was the right thing to do.

But, yeah. Sometimes I amuse myself by imagining how Jon and Catelyn would probably be shocked by the degree of animosity from all sides when readers discuss their situation, and telling everyone to just calm the hell down. There may be no love lost between them, but they also don't seem to wish each other ill at all. The coldness between them stems from the situation; I don't think it was ever anything personal for either of them. When Jon thinks uncomfortably about Catelyn in later books, it's always about her obvious discomfort at his presence and how it made him feel, but it's never about her as a person, if that makes sense. Never once does he speak disrespectfully about her (not even when Robb practically invited him to do so), and even when he thinks about her negatively, he never uses disrespectful terms.

Likewise, every single negative thought Cat has about Jon is based solely on the fact that his presence reminds her of Ned's supposed infidelity. Never once is it based on his personality or behavior, never once does she complain about him being "whiny" or "bratty" or "entitled" or any of the other things people often call Jon during these debates. This is probably in part because she kept her distance and never really got to know him. But I think it's also also because, based on what she did know of him, she didn't really have anything against him as a person. The absolute worst thing she ever thinks of him is that he might try to take her children's inheritance someday, and even then, she later all but admits to Robb that no, Jon himself probably would never do that (I'm referring to when they argued about Robb naming Jon his heir, and she says something along the lines of, "You may feel that Jon would never steal your inheritance, but what of his children?" Idk to me that sounded like a tacit admission that deep down Cat knew Jon wasn't the type of person to steal Robb's inheritance, but maybe I'm reading too much into it?). Phew, sorry for the tangent; I bring all this up because there's always someone in the pro-Cat camp* who brings up Jon's purported "whiny" nature and generally ~unpleasant personality as if it's even relevant, which is ridiculous because Cat actually doesn't seem to have any problem with Jon's personality. (*Not that the pro-Jon camp are any better, because they are decidedly NOT, and in fact can often be worse. I'm not meaning to pick on Cat fans here, just to be clear.)

Anyway, TL;DR: Cat and Jon didn't actually dislike each other, they disliked the situation they were in, and both of them would probably be telling their own fans to just calm the fuck down already.