[ SECRET POST #2206 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2206 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 043 secrets from Secret Submission Post #315.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

This is true. Morgoth and Sauron remain undefined beyond being villains. There's no angsty story of why the either of them "fell to the dark side, they just fell in the tradition of Lucifer, because of pride.

The art has charm, but there is no compelling story to them.

[(Anonymous)]

Lucifer totally gets angsty stories, though. Ever heard of Paradise Lost?

That isn't an argument for saying they have no compelling story.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah paradise lost WAS fic

[(Anonymous)]

DA

But within the canon itself there's no equivalent to Paradise Lost for Morgoth or Sauron.

Not to know me argues yourselves unkown.

[(Anonymous)]

Very familiar with Paradise Lost.

Tolkien did not build up Morgoth's or Sauron's characters the way John Milton did his Satan.

Milton's Lucifer is far more fascinating than Morgoth.

Re: Not to know me argues yourselves unkown.

[(Anonymous)]

I think AYRT was referring to the fact that the Bible didn't give Lucifer a compelling story, and that Paradise Lost did, thus implying that fanfic authors can do the same for Tolkien's books.

Re: Not to know me argues yourselves unkown.

[(Anonymous)]

Which is cool, I'm not interested in writing that fic myself. Not when I have found related or parallel canon sources far older than Paradise Lost. So I write my own interpretation of a Lucifer figure.

While Morgoth is of that Luciferian cast, I personally find going back to the roots of that mythology more rewarding. Tolkien did not expound on that theme, which suits his story well. I wanted to write my own.

[philstar22]

Sometimes that makes it more fun. Shippers can fill in the gaps and imagine what the characters are and their relationship is outside of canon. The more room a writer gives to do that, sometimes the easier it is to make things up. For some people, that is fun.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand being able to fill in the spaces, which is what I do in most of my fics. No where have I said that there is anything wrong with this, or with shipping Morgoth or Sauron.

While Morgoth and Sauron are interesting, they do not compell me. I value Tolkien's works for other qualities.

I devoured the Sil when I was 13-14, learning everything I could about Morgoth and Sauron, and LOTR, and the rest of the books, as well as sources because I wanted to so much have these two be villains that I truly enjoy. I even did fanwork, my own pics of what they must look like and interact. But there wasn't enough to satisfy me. There are qualities qualities I respect about most of Tolkien's heroes where I cannot respect them in other fandoms. They display an amazing humility in understanding how much of the "dark side" is within them. In my eyes that lessened the impact of Morgoth or Sauron being the shadow elements of what some heroes in other fandoms would actively deny, even Jedi.

One could argue that Morgoth was set up by the Valar, or Eru the One, to be the fall guy, the one who has to do the onerous duty of being bad, but this is also the story of Lucifer.

I love Tolkien's works because many of his heroes I can get into, unlike a lot of fandoms. But for the deep backstory of villains, I look elsewhere.

[philstar22]

I guess I don't feel the need to relate to villains or sympathize to like them as villains. I like Sauron and Morgoth precisely because they are unapologeticaly evil. I like them for the same reason my favorite Star Wars character is Palpatine: I enjoy that sort of pure evil devil-like figure. I don't always need a deep backstory.

Sure, sympathetic villains are awesome too. But sometimes it is nice to have a villain who is just a villain without any shades of gray. I love the idea of these two being evil together, of Morgoth seducing Sauron and them enjoying the things the do with the one person who thinks the same way.

[(Anonymous)]

Which boils down to YMMV.