fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2207 ]

[ SECRET POST #2207 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2207 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

__________________________________________________

17.

__________________________________________________

18.

__________________________________________________

19.

__________________________________________________

20.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 023 secrets from Secret Submission Post #315.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The world has become trite and overly-PC. Everyone's child is a special snowflake, no stereotype is true, punishment for bad behavior is damaging, there is no such thing as a 'loser' in a competition, let's not express ourselves or challenge authority or dare write anything realistic and disturbing without warning people to cover their poor little eyes...

And then there's this asshole.

I kind of agree with the asshole, though they are a bit of an asshole.

I think a lot of the issue is people expecting to be safe and coddled wherever they go on the internet. No. There will always be things that are going to offend you, or even trigger you, and you cannot expect otherwise because the internet is a shitty place. Unless you're in a "safe space", you are risking being exposed to pretty much everything that isn't illegal. If you can't handle that possibility, don't be there.

Sure, the internet is not a safe space. If anyone believes that, they are not only wrong but unbelievably and mindnumbingly naive. However. Lots of fandom spaces have created a community that aspires to be somewhat safer than the rest of the internet (keep in mind: still not a Safe Space). It is commonly accepted that you should tag your fanfic with warnings for common triggers. In a community that is trying to protect and help out people who have legitimate triggers (and yes, not all people use the term correctly, and yes, people can be assholes about it), why on earth is your desire to be an asshole who doesn't care about other people more important than community norms? What does it cost you to add warnings (or to read/skip over them, if you are a reader)?

Here is the truth: whenever I see people Taking A Stand Against Mollycoddling, what I actually see is people who are so positively overly concerned with their Fundamental Right to be a complete, thoughtless asshole that they cannot possibly consider making tiny changes to their routine *to not cause great hurt to other people.*

(I'd also add that this was, honestly, a small part of their otherwise pretty gross comment, which, to be honest, all reads just like what I said above.)

Maybe you need glasses then, because you're seeing things wrong.

no...no...the ayrt has it pretty spot on.

(I'm none of the anons above.)

This. Thank you.

+1

Seriously, I never realized how hard it was to be a tiny bit considerate of other people. I guess I should check my decent-human-being privilege.

Sorry, but if you have triggers, the onus is on you to look out for yourself, not expect the rest of the world to do it for you.

I'm allergic to nuts. If I go to a bake sale, it's my responsibility to keep myself safe. The people there aren't obligated to put a "Contains nuts" sign on every single thing they make. Why should they? It's MY job to ask what's in something because it could potentially be dangerous to me. Sure, it's nice when people label things, but it's entitled as hell to EXPECT it.

In the end, the only one who can really keep me safe is me. If you're not sure if a fic is safe for you, ask the author. Ask a friend to read it for you first. You are not completely helpless in the absence of warnings.

Just out of curiosity, but on the part of the author, wouldn't it actually be less labour intensive to put up a warning rather than field questions? It's usually two words to a sentence more in the header, rather than replying to individual questions one at a time.

Because in the absence of warnings, people will have to ask. So they're going to be telling people anyway, why not up front and at the start?

It is even easier to just ignore any whining "questions" about triggers and not respond to them.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-18 14:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-18 21:15 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-19 16:15 (UTC) - Expand

You know what helps me avoid food that could kill my sister? Labels listing what's in the food.

Which you can expect if you go to a grocery store, the equivalent of which would be a fanfic archive where warnings are required for posting. Fic posted on tumblr or LJ or unmoderated sites are like going to a bake sale - you run the risk of getting something dangerous. That isn't the fault of the people posting the fic, they have the right not to label if they want.

(no subject)

wauwy - 2013-01-18 09:06 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-18 22:27 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT

No, they aren't obligated. But isn't it damn nice when they do & you don't have to worry about dying just because you want to eat a brownie? Similarly, if you walk into a hall full of bake sale stalls, and 70% label their brownies for whether they contain nuts, won't you be a little put out (even if you aren't feeling entitled!) when the other 30% don't? It's about culture, and the fact that writing "Pecans!" on a sign takes less time out of your day than complaining about all those entitled people with nut allergies who want a warning.

No, I wouldn't. I would get a brownie from the stalls that are labeled, or if I really wanted one of the other ones, I'd ask the person running the stall if it was okay or not.

Likewise, if someone has triggers, they can read fic on any one of the numerous sites or communities that requires warnings. They don't get to go to someone's personal journal or tumblr or a community where warnings aren't required and raise a stink when warnings aren't used. Authors are not under any obligation to use warnings unless they're posting on a site that requires them. I'm really sick of the attitude that an author is somehow an OMG TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING if they don't label their fic. It's their choice whether they want to or not, just like it's the choice of the person with triggers whether they want to read something in a location where warnings aren't required.

I'm on your side, here, but I do kind of have to disagree with the core sentiment/analogy you've got here.

Nuts are a common allergy, and they should be labelled in food. By that token, things like, say, non-con are also very common triggers and should be warned for. Those large things, I think most people can agree on.

It's the smaller things that get people. On food, it's easy to break it down to things like "macademia nuts" vs "peanuts" because all the ingredients typically have to be listed on there, anyway...but that's not feasible for fanfic. That's when things become complicated. Does "implied homophobia" mean there's blatant homophobia that's just never called that, hence why it's implied? Or is it because in an otherwise fluffy fic there's a single line that could be theoretically interpreted as homophobic by some people if they actively choose to see it that way? Because I've seen both those situations get the exact same warning. Is that warning warranted? Some people will say yes. But at the same time, it becomes a slippery slope to overwarning and warning for things which aren't there, at which point they completely and utterly lose their purpose and we might we well not bother warning for things at all, and/or people who have multiple triggers get "locked out" of fandom because everything has so many warnings on them, and there's almost no way to know if that warning is for a single line or the entire fic.

And all of that is before we get into the semantics thing. As I've said so many, many times - sexism =/= misogyny. But if there's even the slightest hint of sexism in your fic, you'll get slammed for not mentioning the misogyny, even if there isn't any.

Re: When nuts = noncon...

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-18 06:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: When nuts = noncon...

nyxelestia - 2013-01-18 06:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: When nuts = noncon...

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-18 07:45 (UTC) - Expand

I think that the term triggers is incredibly overused (and sometimes in ways that actually lessens its meaning), but I also totally agree with you. It takes about five seconds to warn for common things like non-con, underage, and incest, which make a lot of people intensely uncomfortable (and, yes, are triggers for some). Even if some people misuse the term, that's no reason to rail against common courtesy and warn for shit that some people do not want to read.

Meh, I'm thick skinned about a lot of things, I don't need trigger warnings, but I throw them in there if my fic has contents that is likely to trigger someone, or I post: choose to not use warnings as a heads up.

It's not my job to lecture others that the Internetz Iz Meenie and there is a Big Bad Horrible World out there. I don't see people as needing mollycoddling. It's none of my business of what they've experienced.

The future is looking AWESOME innit?

No stereotype is ever the whole of the situation or the person, and no person or situation, no matter how stereotypical, is ever not an individual occurence in their own right. Inappropriate punishment for bad behaviour, or misdirected punishment for poorly understood behaviour, is damaging. Adding a warning to protect people does not diminish the power of expressing ourselves, challenging authority, or writing controversial topics, and it does diminish the hurt caused to people who do not necessarily deserve it.

We don't have to let everyone do whatever they want, and we don't have to rigidly control everything or everyone. This is actually a middle ground between anarchy and fascism.

I have been on the internet for 15 years and in my fandoms we always warned. It's just that the word trigger wasn't used.

But maybe your fandom is made of butterflies shitting rainbows and there's nothing that might disturb anyone. My fandoms rape babies.

You are seriously overreacting, you know.

Wait wait wait hold up. I thought the ~~edgy~~ anti-PC droners were supposed to be angry at the evil leftist liberals for challenging authority. You know, as long as that authority is God, or parents, or right-wing politicians.

It's only bad to not challenge left-wing politicians, or evil unions, or sociology professors.

The courage it takes these poor souls to stand up before a crowd of brainwashed, PC robots and say that black people are criminals and women are inferior brings a tear to my eye, every time.

Never forget the true heroes, people.

A+
would consider very thoughtfully and shed a tear in memoriam of the tragic heroes of our day again.

+1,000

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only