[ SECRET POST #2210 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2210 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 101 secrets from Secret Submission Post #316.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Same. White Dudes Go On Adventures has been done to death. It's boring and alienating. Change it up already.

[silverau]

Pretty much this.

[thene]

I only wish that the paying public felt the same way.

Look at fandom, seriously. Most people just lap up anything with wall-to-wall straight white dudes in it.

[(Anonymous)]

How dare people like things.

[(Anonymous)]

As a POC female:

It's only alienating if you LET it be.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

I am caucasian, so I can't speak on that level, but I do know that up until people started telling me that I was supposed to be upset about the lack of women I never thought twice of it. I identified with the characters along the lines of the emotions I shared with them. Joy, loss, pride, sadness and despair.

Things that all the races in fantasy share, and that people have regardless of sex. I never saw myself as being excluded because everyone was a guy.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

100% this. It never occurred to me to pay attention to the gender of a character when it came to identifying with them. There are plenty of male characters I can identify with just fine and plenty of female characters I can't identify with at all. It's not as if being female automatically makes them a character that resonates with me.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I feel, anon, that perhaps there were a lot more variables at work than just movies.

And, as others in this thread have pointed out, that it's the PORTRAYAL of women that's the problem rather than their lack of portrayal. The ones we have aren't worth the dirt they stand on as role models.

[(Anonymous)]

You might find it boring and alienating, thousands of women don't.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, 'cause we've internalized this shit from day 1. It's not alienating because it's familiar.

[(Anonymous)]

And? As anon above mentioned, it doesn't matter whether it's men or women because they all have emotions that can be shared. We can empathize with folks regardless of their species, race or sex.

It's only a problem if you MAKE it a problem. And if you think it should be fixed, good on you. But you have exactly ZERO right to make those thousands of women feel bad about what they like just because you think there should be more women. Nobody is hurt by men in fiction. I read LotR when I was nine, and went out and made a sword out of a tree and hacked at other trees, pretending they were orcs.

By 14 I was doing medieval reenactments. I have since travelled the world and earned an advanced degree in chemistry. I'm hoping to become a chemical engineer. I would love to go on an adventure to the far reaches of the planet and figure out how to save it.

Only one of those has anything to do with reading LotR, but NONE of it was damaged by everyone being male.

So, yeah. It doesn't help anything for you to run around telling women that "they've internalized this shit" and that they should feel angry/sad about it. It's just being a sanctimonious bitch who wants to hurt other people's fun.

[(Anonymous)]

DA--I'm still not sure if I entirely agree with the argument, but that bit about "we can empathize with folks regardless of their species, race, or sex?" The argument isn't precisely that women can do exactly that. It's that men can't. Obviously not all men have trouble emphasizing with female protagonists, but the basic idea is that women are taught to emphasize and sympathize with men, but men are taught that women (and empathy, for that matter) are worth less than men and manly things. Women will go see superhero movies, but men don't watch chick-flicks, basically. As far as The Hobbit goes, I just quietly picture some of the dwarves as female, and if word-of-director says not, oh well. I don't let it ruin a fun movie.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, well. I know plenty of men who prefer and identify with, say, X-23 over Wolverine, so I'm not sure that's right. Sure, the PTB are idiots and that IS tragic, but, still, it gets my hackles up when people tell me I've "internalized" something like it's some sort of terrible, horrible thing.

I haven't internalized shit. I'm happy enough with an all-male cast (especially if that's what the damn source material says). I'm equally happy with an all-woman cast or a mixed cast. If the people are actually people and the story is good and keeps my attention, at least.

It just seems odd to me that anyone - no offense - considers the characters good or not good, but has to change what's between their legs to actually enjoy the movie.

And I'm a woman that LOATHES chick-flicks. They're trite and stupid and make women look weak and fawn over men. NO chick flick to date passes the Bechdel Test. They're all about women FAILING the Bechdel test, basically. I would much rather watch a movie about men overcoming all odds than something like The Holiday where, even when the women take control over their own lives, it's still all about them finding men. It's no wonder men don't want to watch them. They're stupid.

But take something like Kill Bill. It's violent, and I don't actually like it all that much, but it's equally liked by both men and women. So I don't think that men can't empathize. The Bride, killing everyone in her path for ruining her happiness, is someone people can identify with on a primal level.

da +1

[(Anonymous)]

Chick flicks are dumb as shit and quite frankly I think it's offensive that women are expected to like them.

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

DA

While you seem quite angry, I agree on the chick-flick part. Not to belittle people that DO like them - to each their own, but the idea that women or anyone would want to like them to the degree that is expected seems incredibly silly. Some are good, but in most cases nobody acts like a human being.

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

DA

While you seem quite angry

why is it that this shit gets trotted out when someone says something that it appears the majority disagrees with?

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

it gets my hackles up when people tell me I've "internalized" something like it's some sort of terrible, horrible thing.

I haven't internalized shit.

Usually I don't get to quote Princess Bride, so I'm pretty stoked about this! Ehem: "you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

1. you're quoting specific examples as proof that a statistics is not true.
2. what does your loathing of chick-flicks prove, exactly? Because you are arguing that you don't like trite, formulaic movies made specifically to please what Hollywood thinks a woman is. Congratulations, you aren't what Hollywood thinks a woman is.
3. the issue is not that women can't sympathise and identify with male characters, because duh. That's why the movies are made as they are, because the makers expect everyone to identify with the real emotions of the predominantly male characters, but will balk at putting a woman in the center-spot because they know men won't identify with a woman's emotions.

No one is complaining because they can't identify with white men, they are saying that it would be nice if for a change the white men had to identify with someone else.

[(Anonymous)]

So write a new story then. No one is stopping anyone from doing that.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

just what I was going to say. Write an adventure with female hobbits and dwarves.

[(Anonymous)]

This complaint would make a lot more sense if it were about a recent work, not one of the first fantasy novels ever!

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, I know!

JRRT should have written something more socially sensitive.

[(Anonymous)]

This could be a relevant complain if the movie was not based on a book MANY YEARS BEFORE this was done to death! I personally don't want to see them changing canon characters. I'm a girl. I can identify with the dudes and have never felt myself being alienated. I loved the book. I have always wanted to see this movie. And now here it is.