[ SECRET POST #2217 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2217 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early because sick, sorry.

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 097 secrets from Secret Submission Post #317.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

If you don't like Amy, well, you don't like her (I'm neutral/undecided myself), but why compare her to Donna? Please tell me it's not because they both have red hair.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh you don't understand. Some people can't like things in a positive way. They can only like thing in a "everything else sucks" way. It's because they themselves have so little self-worth, they don't think their own opinion is ever valid or defensible. So the only way they can give themselves an excuse for liking character X is to tear down everyone around her so that character X is the only valid option left, so they have no choice but to like character X.

These are the same people who bashed Martha for being both similar and different to Rose, and the same people who bashed Donna for being both similar and different to Martha. And etc etc etc for all companions that came before, if they're oldskool. It's all about the fan's mentality, not the characters.

One thing for sure is that Donna sure as fuck would have no patience with anyone who sat and blubbered and whined about everything that she didn't like instead of finding joy in the things she did.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

If you'd like to make a personal attack on me, be ballsy enough to just do it like some others have. I can at least respect them for flat out calling me on how ranty my comment was, instead of passive aggressively replying to someone who had the balls to do what they didn't. Your poor attempt at psychoanalysis and your half-assed judgment makes you sound every bit as bitter as your comment attempts to make me sound. Especially since you're commenting anonymously.

My comment never said 'everything sucks.' In fact, I'm pretty clear about what I do think sucks. It's also very clear that I don't like Donna because I wanna hate on everyone else. I like her because I like her. Very much. In fact, a part of the reason I dislike Amy as a written character is because I like Donna so much as a character and because I consider Amy to be Moffat's poor excuse to effectively recreate themes that had already been used with Donna. Donna isn't 'the only valid option;' I like Rose and Martha as well. Donna is just the companion I like best.

[(Anonymous)]

Especially since you're commenting anonymously.

Sorry, different anon, but can you not use the "you're an anon so your argument in invalid" argument? It's really fucking rude on a community where it's generally more common to reply to things anonymously than logged-in, especially on DW where you usually need a code to make an account.

It would be different if this were an argument on your personal journal, but this is fandomsecrets and no one is required to post with an account.

[(Anonymous)]

While I agree that "anon=invalid argument" is a poor defense for everything, DW accounts have been code-free for more than a year now so that part of your argument is moot.

[(Anonymous)]

You're anonymous too.

No one knows your name, your location. You could just as easily have five accounts you're using, and sockpuppet yourself. You don't have any accountability; don't pretend you do.

[(Anonymous)]

How do you know that that anon isn't the same one who called you out above?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I really don't think that's it. I mean, I'm sure some people are like that, but I don't think it's usually the case. Also, I have pretty low self-worth, and I don't do that.

So what's you excuse for tearing down things (perspectives, in this case) you don't like?

[(Anonymous)]

Meh. *your excuse

[wldcatsprstr_14]

Of course it's not that. But any person who actually takes a good look at the two characters will see way too many similarities for things to sit comfortably.

The fiery redhead who ends up in the TARDIS on the eve of her wedding? Who weird things keep happening around? Who's somehow absent for literally every cataclysmic alien-related thing that has been happening all around her? Whose life has been being manipulated by outside forces for who knows how long? Who ends up saving the universe due to the sheer Timey Wimey-ness of her brain?

Even if Donna hadn't come before, Amy's story arc was a straight up misogynistic trainwreck. The fact that she's so much like Donna just adds insult to injury, IMO.

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that almost everything you mentioned can also be applied to Rose too, right? Bad Wolf and all?

And the thing about missing alien-related stuff -- nope, you're understanding it completely wrong. Amy didn't forget alien-related stuff, it was that alien-related stuff was wiped out of existence by the cracks -- NO ONE could remember it.

And as for the weddings, again, sorry, no. The situations were completely different. Donna was sucked into the TARDIS while walking down the aisle because her fiance had manipulated her into dating him and was poisoning her with TARDIS-y particles and her hormones were going haywire. She returned to her wedding, which collapsed in one episode, in the space of a couple hours. The themes of that episode was about Donna being betrayed by someone she loved and the metaphor of being late to a wedding.

Amy ran off to the TARDIS on her own because she had wedding jitters on the night before her wedding, because the Doctor happened to land in her back garden at just the right time (possibly because the pre-crack universe was ending on the day of Amy's wedding because of a time paradox). The themes of that season was Amy emotionally maturing to the point where she was ready to marry Rory, and the metaphor of the whole season happening in the night before the wedding that seems to last forever.

So, um, no. You tried, but no.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

And a big part of Donna's storyline is her emotionally maturing as a person enough to realize that she doesn't have to attach herself to someone else to be important. That finding a man isn't something you do because you think it's gonna fulfill you (of course, RTD ruined this by wiping her mind and making the last comment on her 'Oh she met a guy and theyre getting married.' UGH. I can't even on that). That she can be flat out badass and important all on her own.

The details may be different, the role of wife/bride is still an important theme for both Amy and Donna. Donna's role as bride may not last a whole season like Amy's, but it's still an undercurrent of her character that goes all the way until her character's ending on the show.

That's the thing about themes; they don't have to be exactly the same in every detail to still draw a connection between two things.

[(Anonymous)]

NA

You just want to hate on Amy and Moffet don't you? You don't care at all that there are similarities between other companions ...

[wldcatsprstr_14]

I just posted a comment downthread to 'intrigueing' that explains why I don't have an issue with the similarities between other companions.

In case you don't wanna hunt for it (I know that can be a pain), it pretty much says that since the other characters don't bear such obvious symbolic and thematic similarities to each other (like if Rose were a doctor and then Martha was a nurse) and because their storylines and character developments played out in an enjoyable and sensible way, I don't take issue with them being similar. Moffat copying themes from Donna's character isn't the entirety of the issue for me; it's the fact that I think he squandered and screwed up Amy's character potential that really gets me.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

That's not at all what your first comment sounded like and really your responses seem more focused on how horrible it was that there were similarities, rather than being angry that Moffat didn't do a good job with it.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

My first comment was a kneejerk reaction, which I admitted to another anon when I went more into why I'm upset.

Donna is a really huge sore spot for me and after having finally resigned myself to her never being brought back since RTD left as showrunner, seeing a character who was so much like her and who could have been a new favorite of mine screwed up so badly by Moffat's obsession with crazy plotlines and Timey Wimey really pissed me off. He's managed to screw up every character in his run as showrunner who I either already loved or thought I would really love.

(And this is from someone who adores the work he's done on Sherlock. Moffat + free reign just doesn't equal good things, I guess.)

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

For the record you're talking to someone who loves both characters with equal measure and who doesn't think Amy's storyline was that screwed up. You just sound like someone who wants to bash a character and is going to do it no matter what anyone says.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

Just like you're gonna like her, no matter what I say. We're both entitled to our opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

I've never said there was anything wrong with anyone liking Amy or even with the fact that no one has agreed with me. They're well within their ,whatever they choose to do. Yet while I've never called anyone blind for not being bothered by what I consider serious similarities between the two, apparently I've got my reach goggles on for considering them serious at all.

And for the record, I've never bashed Amy. I've mentioned her in terms of pointing out similarities I see, in order to say what a disaster I think her storyline was, and expressed anger at what I consider crappy writing on Moffat's part. But I've never said an ill word about her. I've seen those kinds of threads on F!S. Those don't address the writing at all. Those are all about calling her horrible names and stuff like that. I haven't done any of that so please don't accuse me of character bashing. Writer bashing, I'll accept :)

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

This: absolute shitshow that was Amy Pond and Yea, I'm hatin' on Amy. So what. sound like character bashing EVEN if it's mixed in with and meant to be writer bashing.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

As a character, she was a shitshow. Her storyarc was a disaster, IMO. So I don't take that back. But I will concede that saying I was hatin' on her wasn't necessarily what I meant. Point taken.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Aside from the unfortunate choice of words that made it sound like character bashing you're also attacking a character/writer in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with them. WTF was the point, really? Of course it wasn't going to end well.

[(Anonymous)]

Moffat copying themes from Donna's character isn't the entirety of the issue for me; it's the fact that I think he squandered and screwed up Amy's character potential that really gets me.

I think it's arguable whether Moffat actually "copied" anything. First of all, every similarity that you've mentioned is a long-standing trope; none of it originated with the character of Donna, who herself follows a rather traditional arc. Second of all, Amy's motivations are completely different from Donna's, as is the trajectory of her arc. Third, the two have rather divergent personalities.

Now, getting upset because Amy's potential was squandered is one thing. Complaining that Amy is some sort of thematic Donna clone is something else altogether, and rather ridiculous, at that.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Ah, that makes a lot more sense. I still don't see them as too similar for comfort - they just don't have the same "feel" to them for me - but I understand why you and many others do.