fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2227 ]

[ SECRET POST #2227 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2227 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Roswell]

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02.

[Gyakuten Saiban/Ace Attorney]

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03.

[Pokemon]

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04.

[The Vampire Diaries]

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05.

[Teen Wolf]

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06.

[Les Miserables: Shojo Cosette]

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07.

[The Hobbit]

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08.

[Neil Gaiman, Mark Gatiss, Dan Handler]

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09.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)]

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10.

[Power Rangers]

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11.

[Star Wars: The Old Republic]

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12.

[Big Bang Theory]

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13.

[Breaking Bad]

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14.

[Troy Baker]

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15.

[Magi; Final Fantasy IX]

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16.

[Skyrim]

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17.

[Supernatural]

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18.

[Penn & Teller]

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19.

[Flight Facilities - With You]

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20.

[Neil Gaiman]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 043 secrets from Secret Submission Post #318.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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The Angels Take Manhattan just blew my brain over how bad and stupid it was. (Really, in a city of over eight million people, no one noticed a 150ft statue walking down the street making a huge racket as she went along? No one?)

My main problems with it was that for one, it made NO sense given the rules of time travel that had been long established in the show and that Moffat himself had hammered home particularly hard throughout the entire last season. I mean, by the episode's logic, it should have been impossible to remove the monster in the window from the Van Gogh painting. And what, River Song can rip apart the whole universe to find a loophole in order to not kill the Doctor and still make everything fine in the end, but the Ponds apparently can't put their own gravestones up early, twiddle their thumbs for a few months, and then go to Staten Island, or Pennsylvania, or the other side of the continent if they have to, so the Doctor can pick them up outside of the paradox zone?

And that's just from an in-universe perspective. That's ignoring the fact that The Power of Three was a perfectly-characterized, thematically resonant send-off that was a nice fresh take on companion departures for New Who, and made a wonderful amount of sense for all the characters involved and their shared history, so Angels was just a steaming pile of "yeahbuhwha?" coming after that.

And oh, I think I've made the connection: both Angels and Journey's End completely crapped all over every scrap of narrative elegance, emotional meaning, and respect for the supporting characters, for the sole purpose of making the Doctor extra-depressed for the next stories Moffat and RTD were planning. That must be why I hate them both so much.

My feeling was that Power of Three proved that Rory and Amy were never going to stop going with the Doctor and the Doctor was never going to be able to give them up on his own - they had been doing it for 10 years from their POV after all - something had to force the issue. And something did. Okay I agree plot wholes and stupidity all around for that episode but it doesn't change my feeling about why a sharp cut was necessary of Rory and Amy were going to live their lives away from the Doctor.

Yes the Doctor could have found a way to go get them but it would have started the same cycle all over again - them not being able to stop and him not leaving them behind. And what if the next time something happens it's a lot worse? What if he has to deal with their actual death instead of knowing they got to live long happy lives?

Well, I took it the exact opposite way. By the end of the Power of Three, before the final scene, the episode had actually finally convinced me that the Ponds and the Doctor had developed to the point where they finally *could* go their separate ways and be at peace with it. That Amy and Rory would finally be okay with a normal life, that their adventures with the Doctor had finally started to feel like they were running away from reality (there was such a lovely Peter Pan-ish vibe to that scene with Amy and the Doctor on the dock). And that, especially after confessing that he had been irrationally smitten with them from the minute he set eyes on them, and with Brian knocking a couple of hard reality clues into his head, the Doctor could finally muster up the resolve to stay away from them. It was mutually warm and affectionate and sad and empty-nest-syndrome-y and impressively mature.

Basically, The Power of Three was really effective in convincing me of exactly the opposite of what the ending told me to think. Maybe I just took it differently from you, but scenes like the one with Amy and Rory realizing they were making commitments for earth-life without taking into account their TARDIS travels, the scene with Amy and the Doctor on the dock, and the Doctor and Brian talking about past companions just screamed "moving on and finding closure" to me.

AYRT

The ending felt very clear to me that it was all thrown out when Rory's father points out that no they can't give him up yet and they continue on to other adventures with him.... if they'd really meant it they wouldn't have gone with him again. Since they did I don't believe they were at all ready to stop even if they though they wanted to or should. Then we see in Angels how much the Doctor hates endings which only reenforced my feelings that it had to be something abrupt.

Yeah that's what I mean. When Brian said that I was like "um, wait, what? Where the hell did that come from?" because the entire episode before that had been doing a great job of convincing me of the opposite. Nothing about the episode showed WHY Brian was right, or why they couldn't give him up, or why all the episode's driving home the fact that they were ready to give him up was bogus. It just said "they can't give him up because we suddenly say so". They didn't convince me. And mind you, I usually don't take a whole lot of convincing to believe something, I'm normally a pretty face-value person, but I'm not gonna ignore an entire episode's message just because a character suddenly told so out of the blue.

Not to mention "the Doctor hates endings" does not mean he doesn't want to give up his companions. He doesn't mind leaving his companions. He's NEVER minded leaving his companions. He misses them a lot, sure. He's devastated when they're torn from him involuntarily. But he has never, ever, ever had a major problem with leaving them, or with them leaving him.

He does hate endings, but he hates endings as in he hates death. The guy is literally terrified out of his skull at the idea of seeing his companions grow old and die while he keeps living on decade after decade and century after century and knowing he will never be able to see them again without crossing his own timeline. That's why he never has a problem with letting them go when they do so voluntarily, because he wants them to live long happy lives and doesn't want to see them die. In the classic series, he's even sometimes been rather dickish about shooing them off and making a clean break with no regrets or tears or anxieties or lingering complications when they expressed the desire to leave.

I get what you're saying but ... for me that was more of a yeah I thought so - you can't give him up yet, and probably not ever. They may have been discussing it but they clearly didn't mean it that much or really want to stop. All the conversations felt really half harted to me - like they knew they should stop but they really didn't want to.

Either way I don't think we're going to ever agree on this since from other discussions I've had here with you it's clear we saw these last few series differently. So let's just agree to disagree and I REALLY REALLY need to go to bed before it's actually midnight sheesh. I should have left well enough alone.

Eh, I guess we saw things differently. Nothing wrong with that. :) I'm curious as to how we saw the last few series differently though? I mean, you're anon so I can't exactly track your opinions or know when else I saw you.

ttYRT

There was the post the other day where someone listed all the "lessons" the doctor got in the last few series and then you replied to that adding some info about why you hated Series 6 (that was you right or have I gotten you mixed up with someone else?). I replied to you saying it was making more sense now why people hated series 6 so much, but while I understood the issues but didn't see the same way didn't think that the plot lines were that messed up or anything. Basically I had fun watching it so that's what matter most.

We might have also discussed Donna's ending once .... or at lease I saw your comments and agreed but disagreed to parts of it without commenting.

Basically there's a lot of "Okay I get it but I don't think it was that horrible" or "I get how you saw it but I didn't see it that way/didn't hate how it happened as much" on my side for things that have come up here about it.

Ahh! I remember that! Okay, yeah, now I understand. I guess I'm just being all ridiculously hardcore and focused on having the show make all kinds of perfect internal sense and stuff. ;) Whenever I discuss shows in depth, I tend to go for the super-analytical-meta route and get all invested, unfortunately. No worries!

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[ SECRET POST #2227 ]

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows

Re: Your least favorite episode of your favorite shows