[ SECRET POST #2235 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2235 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Transformers More Than Meets the Eye #13]


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03.
[Agent Romanov/Black Widow, MCU]


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04.
[Richard Armitage]


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05.
[James Bond: Skyfall]


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06.
[Frankie Boyle]


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07.
[Michael Trucco & Sandra Hess]


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08.
[Injustice: Gods Among Us]


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09.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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10.
[Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II, The Sith Lords]


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11.
[The Following]


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12.
[Battlestar Galactica and The Walking Dead]


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13.
[Game of Thrones]


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14.
[Jennifer Connelly]


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15.
[Castle]


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16.
[BBC's Robin Hood]


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17.
[The Most Popular Girls in School]


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18.
[Legend of Korra]


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19.
[Steam Powered Giraffe]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I do hate the showrunners because they're a pair of incompetent boobs who have derailed what could have been otherwise a great show.

But it's pretty obvious from reading the books and watching the show that they've gone out of her way to soften Cersei from the books and make her less of an outright villain. I mean she's a complex villain but a horrible person nonetheless. In the show she's your typical HBO antihero.

That they would A.) have her not kill Robert's bastards and B.) have her upset when Joffrey does shows how they view her character.

[(Anonymous)]

I dislike that almost as much as making Loras and Renly stereotypical gay caricatures from the 90's. IiiiCK blood! I don't liiike fighting, girlfriend. *feminine pout* *YMCA plays in the background*

[sugar_spun]

I presume Renly didn't like blood or fighting because that was supposed to be his weakness. All of the kings had a particular weakness as well as a strength:

Joffrey is very much hated (and incompetent), but is the sitting king from a rich family.
Stannis is not loved and has a small army, but has Melisandre and is the rightful king.
Renly is not a great commander or fighter, but is beloved and has a large army.
Robb is an untested commander, but proves very good at it and has a lot of loyalty.

Part of the problem with Renly is how obviously good his starting position was. It made it oh-so clear what was going to happen to him. I felt they wanted to give him a clear weakness to make it less obvious.

Besides being rather disgusted by blood and not a fighter, I can't really see why you'd call him a gay stereotype. Take out his scenes with Loras or referencing him, I'm not exactly seeing anyone possibly guessing.

[(Anonymous)]

Did you watch the naked shaving scene between them

[sugar_spun]

Yes. He doesn't like blood and fighting. That was about it. If you want to get into details about how you think his actor handling his mannerisms (which I can see as being a little too stereotypical), I think that's getting too fuzzy. As far as it stands, that's all he does. I'll point out he was seen as sort of frivolous in the books.

[sugar_spun]

So literally one thing is changed about her and oh my god they've DEFILED her.

I think they gave it to Joffrey for a number of reasons: one, to make Joffrey actually seem like he might be a threat outside of the control of his family, to make him seem more evil, and yes, to make Cersei seem more palatable. Lastly, possibly because the writers thought of it as a really stupid move, and they wanted Cersei to seem not quite that stupid.

I really don't think she's supposed to be a hero, anti or otherwise. I think anyone who thinks she is has lost their mind, and again, really really wants to hate the showrunners for some reason.

[(Anonymous)]

Literally one thing? Have we watched the show?

Book!Cersei wouldn't have a wistful heart to heart with Robert about their failed marriage. Heck, BooK!Cersei wouldn't have even had a miscarriage of Robert's child because she wouldn't have even tried to carry his child to term. Book!Cersei wouldn't be horrified at her son being a monster. Heck, Joffrey probably molested Tommen and she cut him off when he tried to tell her.

The only time Cersei even remotely resembled her book counterpart was the episode that GRRM wrote.

[sugar_spun]

I was mocking you for bringing up one single thing and throwing a temper tantrum. If you want to complain about a character, bring up more than one point against her.

I presumed Cersei was lying through her teeth to make it less obvious to Catelyn she had something to do with Bran's fall, but I could be wrong, and that could just be my book interpretation coming through.

And it's funny you bring up Blackwater, because that was the episode that, to me, had the most obvious overtures of getting you to feel sad for Cersei, what with that lion and his mother story and her weeping in the throne room and everything.

I also seem to remember her very explicitly saying that she wanted to love Robert (to Ned, maybe?) in the books, so I don't think that's out of line. And I don't remember anything about Joffrey molesting Tommen?

I still think the most important parts of her character are there: someone who thinks she's a skillful player of the game but remains rather pathetically incompetent most of the time, someone who doesn't realize her only personal tools are quickly turned against her and can easily desert her, someone who loves her children and loves power, someone who resents her place in the world as a woman (and yet looks down on other women), etc.

What most stands out to me is that scene with Littlefinger and the scene with Ros. It felt clear to me that they were obviously making it clear this a paranoid woman too convinced of her own power and skill, and it's rather pathetic.

[(Anonymous)]

I presumed Cersei was lying through her teeth to make it less obvious to Catelyn she had something to do with Bran's fall, but I could be wrong, and that could just be my book interpretation coming through.

No, she brings it up to Robert.

She did try giving Robert a chance but on their wedding night he called her Lyanna and from that point on she hated him.

And I don't remember anything about Joffrey molesting Tommen?

There's a line where he tells Jaime that he would go to a special place when Joffrey did something to him but Cersei cuts him off when he tries to tell what he did. That Joffrey molested him is the prevalent theory.

[sugar_spun]

She did try giving Robert a chance but on their wedding night he called her Lyanna and from that point on she hated him.

That was in the books, wasn't it? Or is that what you're talking about?

No, she brings it up to Robert.

Oh. Well. That is pretty out of character. My apologies. I guess I was trying to supplant my book version too much. Hm...maybe I should watch the show again.

I still stand by saying I never once felt she was supposed to be a heroic character. Definitely not a 'strong, independent woman in a man's world'.

[(Anonymous)]

Heroic, no.

But the show has definitely gone out of their way to make her not as half as bad in the books and instead your standard amoral HBO character. The HBO character of Cersei is not even as bad as Al Swearengen from Deadwood or Lucretia from Spartacus.

[sugar_spun]

Well, I never disagreed with that (I think). Just that I never saw HBO trying to make her into some good character. If I had to really guess, it's to make her attitude in AFFC seem harder.

In fact, it seems a lot of GoT has been about guaging what fan reaction was and trying to work around it. Making things like the RW in ASOS less obvious (not that they're succeeding).

[(Anonymous)]

Lastly, possibly because the writers thought of it as a really stupid move, and they wanted Cersei to seem not quite that stupid.

Then that shows how little they understand her character. Because Cersei is a really stupid person. See AFFC.

[(Anonymous)]

idk, i think they have a lot of company; it's practically obligatory, any time you mention eddard stark, to comment on how stupid he is, yet i seldom see that in conversations about cersei, who is so stupid that she thinks she's being brilliant when she's stupidest

[wauwy]

Absolute fact.

Other stupid characters: Brienne, Robb (people agree on this one at least), Jaime when it comes to anything other than fighting with swords

Characters can be stupid and you can still love them. I mean my favorite male character is Cecil Harvey and god have mercy is he a dupe.

[sugar_spun]

They still have her make stupid moves: threatening Littlefinger so overtly for instance. And I believe a lot of AFFC is born of increasing paranoia. I don't think she's quite that stupid at that point in time, not when she's at her safest.

Besides, she manages some things competently in the books.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, she was that stupid in AFFC. And she was stupidest precisely when she thought she was being brilliant: e.g., when she gave the okay for his High Sparrowness to restore the Faith's military orders.

[sugar_spun]

?

At that point in time being in the beginning of ACOK. When she is at her safest. AFFC is not her safest.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, I misread.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt, once again

I will say, though, that even at her best, Cersei was never as good a player at the game of thrones as she thought she was. If she were, she would've managed to teach Joff one of its essential rules (as formulated by one of our own 'verse's experts): that we must avoid being despised and hated.

[visp]

But it's pretty obvious from reading the books and watching the show that they've gone out of her way to soften Cersei from the books and make her less of an outright villain.

Not really, it's just that Cersei doesn't get her POV chapters until far later in the book, and even then, she's at the bottom of an emotional downward spiral. Since the show is kinda everyone's POV all the time (because no inner monologues) you see more of her POV from the beginning, from a time when she was slightly less fucked up. The character's essentially the same, you just get to see more of it.