fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2250 ]

[ SECRET POST #2250 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2250 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Stan Lee]

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

[Pusher II]

__________________________________________________

04.

[nigahiga]

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

[code lyoko evolution]

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

10. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]

__________________________________________________

11. [SPOILERS for Kuroko no Basket]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for rape]

__________________________________________________

13. [WARNING for abuse]

__________________________________________________

14. [WARNING for rape]

[SNSD/Girls' Generation]

__________________________________________________

15. [WARNING for dub-con]

__________________________________________________

16. [WARNING for sexual assault]

[One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest]

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

12. [WARNING for rape]
http://i.imgur.com/j82PAn2.jpg

The rape in ASOIAF does bother me somewhat, but not enough to put me off the series completely.

But I do understand if it puts other people off.

1. Most people don't say you need to be offended by it, just that they are.
2. As an insightful secret submitter pointed out a week or two ago, if it's all about medieval realism, where's the rape on the Wall? The Wall might be a boy's only club, but rape isn't.
3. And just like GRRM can write what he wants, we are free to judge it the way we want. You have your opinions, we can have ours.
4. And if someone likes all other aspects of the book except this kind? What then, should they stop reading? I mean if you're so annoyed by these people, why don't you just ignore them? Too loud, you say? Find a better fandom.

For the record, I am not really bothered too much by it. I have a slight uneasiness about it, and that's all.

Edited 2013-03-02 00:20 (UTC)

Well said. Well said.

I love ASOIAF, but it doesn't bother me that some people are uncomfortable with it for whatever reason.

1. You've been luckier than I have, then.
2. I said it wasn't totally accurate and I don't expect it to be.
3. That's...kind of exactly what I said?
4. Uh, no? I never said that everyone who is bothered by the rape should drop the series entirely. I just wish people who actually DON'T want to read the books at all should stop bitching to the fans about it.

I think there's points where it seems like GRRM is writing questionable or problematic sexual things in a way that seems like it's meant to be titillating and that sort of thing. I don't think he ever does it with a scene that's explicitly rape though.

Also, I think there is a point at which something can't be defended simply on the grounds of "Oh it's just something I enjoy and you can't argue taste." There is a point where you have to at least take account of the ways that something is problematic. I don't think GRRM approaches that point but I don't think that arguments runs as far as people seem to want it to.

I also don't agree about the historic thing but I've had that argument a dozen times, including here, so w/e

Not the OP, but as a commenter I do find it interesting that people react this way to published works that include rape but there's also this Your Kink Is Not My Kink rule when it comes to 'shaming' in fic. Is dubcon and rape okay in fanfic, if it is marked? If people are aware that there is rape in a canon work (thus allowing them to avoid it if that is a triggery subject) and that rape is not meant to be a masturbatory aid for the readers, why is that more suspect? People speculate about GRRM but what he writes is NOT written like a porn scene, even if you might suspect he finds it enjoyable from his description, and I just don't really get why this double-standard exists even within fandomsecrets commenters. It sure seems like the same people that bitch about kinkshaming are the ones who jump on board with this kind of complaint about stuff in books/movies/tv/games.

The key distinction seems to be: does the work of fiction portray rape as the horrific act it is or as a nonissue that can lead to a loving relationship (without intending to portray Stockholm syndrome)? If it's the latter kind of portrayal and it's done as pure fantasy wish-fulfillment, is it marketed that way? See 50 Shades of Gray and its status as pure fantasy but allegedly people read it as realism.

*cough* 13-year-old Dany and Drogo, her one true love, the grown ass man and blatant rapist who bought her to be his child bride... Barf. But apparently it's like the most romantic thing ever? Even in the books, GRRM clearly goes that "rape/slavery/chattel => true love" route. The show is even worse.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 03:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 22:50 (UTC) - Expand

Some of what GRRM writes is totally like a porn scene, though.

To me the distinction is that something that's explicitly pornography has an element of wish fulfillment, and at the same time an understanding that there's an element of fantasy and hence that this is something inherently unrealistic. It's much much blurrier in the case of something that's not pornography and hence much more difficult to keep that line of separation.

And let me say again that I don't think GRRM gets to the point where it's a really serious problem.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 14:56 (UTC) - Expand

this comment reminds me of this review of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

http://mindlessones.com/2011/08/18/the-league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-century-1969-the-annocommentations-part-iv/

Zom: I don’t want to spend 1000 words defending another sex crime in another Alan Moore comic. I’ve stated elsewhere that I think most, maybe all, instances of sexual assault in Moore’s comics can at the very least be cogently argued for, if not always entirely satisfactorily. The problem comes with the sheer volume of them: Violate enough fictional women and you start to look like you like it.

I suggested in our annocomments for 1910 that perhaps Moore is of the opinion that sexual violence is deeply embedded within any culture of violence or habitually violent psychology fullstop. I have no statistics, but rape (as in rape and pillage) has always been part of war, and I suspect that rape features in the history of a great many violent people. There’s also the brute fact that rape is massively under reported. Perhaps as a culture we edit sexual assault out of violence because on some level we want to maintain the fantasy that violence can be noble, as in Just War, and entertaining, as in just about every popular entertainment you could mention.

Until Moore’s interviewed by someone with balls enough to ask him what’s up we’ll never know what the man actually thinks, but regardless I’m not completely against the idea of a writer of violent fictions (and Moore, like most popular and unpopular writers, is most certainly that) splicing sexual violence back into the picture, as long as it’s done so responsibly. Which I suppose takes us full circle, and back to precisely what it is that Moore’s doing here, rather than generalities about his body of work.

(OT like a big smelly OT-thing) This was posted in 2011. I'd be interested to see how the discussion of sex in Moore's work changes in the context of the release of "Lost Girls". I've been reading Alan Moore for a long time and while initially I would have agreed with this comment, something about how he approached lost girls squicked me BIG TIME. (Not the premise, something else) and now I read the totality of his work very, very differently.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 05:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 05:04 (UTC) - Expand

inb4 Chardmonster comes in here yelling in all caps.

I actually enjoy ~*problematic*~ (that word has so many special snowflake connotations to me now) material even MORE now because I think about the SJWs shitting their pants, lol.

I don't go around posting about it but I secretly judge people who are fans of this show extremely harshly. Because of the treatment of women and the salaciousness of the series. I do believe the author is a sick man and is partially responsible for things like the "Keep Calm and Rape Them" t-shirt (found on Amazon.uk) that evidently is now humorous.

but I secretly judge people who are fans of this show extremely harshly.

Yeah, see, people like you are the people I'm talking about in my secret. Not people who don't like the series but also don't judge others for enjoying it.

Anyway, I'm not gonna try and change your mind. Just thought I'd make this clear for other people.

I judge you for whining about people secretly judging you.

In fact maybe I'll make a secret about it.

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 03:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-02 05:36 (UTC) - Expand

I find the show and the books to be very different beasts. The show is so blatantly unapologetically problematic and just ignorantly/arrogantly so. The treatment of women is the absolute worst part. It's approached the point where it disgusts me and I'm someone who actually puts up with a lot of unsavory things in my so-called entertainment. Whereas for the most part I find the books to be less of an issue. For me, it's about the approach.

But that said I'd never go after the fans and tell them not to be fans. I go after the source. If fans want to be stupid or purposely ignore some very serious issues, that's their choice. Nothing I say will change that and, like the OP, will just say "Shut up and let me enjoy the thing!". But I will not just sit down and shut up if I see something in the source material that pisses me off or upsets me. I'll criticize that material/portrayal/etc freely because that is my right just as it is someone else's to want to enjoy it. I couldn't care less about bashing the fans themselves. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

The juxtiposition of this comment and the one before it is A++ double-awesome win.

I'm okay with all these things being in ASOIAF, I get that some people are not okay with it, but I'm okay with them not being okay with it as long as they're okay with me being okay with it.

Okay? Okay.

That's pretty much exactly my point.

AYRT:

Okay. :)

I agree for the most part, but why is this a secret?

It's not a problem that you like something problematic. It's a problem if you keep insisting that what you like isn't problematic.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only