fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #244 ]

[ SECRET POST #244 ]

⌈ Secret Post #244 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #035.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Friday, September 7th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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As much as I understand and respect the opinion of most people on this, ~~I tried not to comment, I swear~~ - but, did it occur to you that maybe Nazi Hughes was supposed to support the same theory as Alfons helping them?

Not all Nazis were bad, some were misguided and thought they were doing the right thing, for awhile there. I'm not trying to start an argument, it's really just... A question, I guess. I do know exactly what you mean, and myabe it's only how I choose to percieve things.... but I don't think the Nazi Hughes thing was an attempt to make Hughes out to be a bad guy in the movie. (i.e. Bradley's alter being a good guy, for a change.)

Totally agreed. It's also something to note that, while yes, they are the same person at the most basic and genetic level, they really just aren't the same person. German!Hughes and Amestris!Hughes were raised in two separate countries with two completely separate value systems, cultures, even different sets of friends/colleagues/acquaintances/whathaveyou.

I'm no fan of Nazi!Hughes, myself, but really, when was the last time that the series didn't build up all our hopes with little hints and teasers only to rip out our hearts and grind them into the ground with a pair of cleats?

Yeah, I think the 'Not actually the same person' issue is stressed enough in the variance of Alphonse Elric and Alfons Heiderich. You don't really see enough of Hughes to get a feel for how different he is from his Amestris counter-part, but you can see that Alfons is entirely his own character, who happens to share similar physical traits and name as Al.
Also, if you want to get down to the smallest of technicalities - Hohenheim recognized that something was different with Ed, after he uttered three words at the end of the series. There's no indication that alters are supposed to be clones of their Amestris counterpart... no matter -which- alter you look at. They were raised in completely different circumstances, of course they'll be different people.

I do agree with you on that, too. That series held no hesitation in destroying the emotions of its fans, at every turn possible. It was as likely that they'd make Hughes the ultimate good guy, as it was that Nina was going to survive in the series - or Hughes, himself, for that matter. They waste no time sympathizing with our emotions, Fullmetal Alchemist is a dark story even if some of its fans fail or refuse to see it. Which, in of itself is another matter all together.

Exactly. Heiderich is clearly much more assertive and independent than Al was (not that Al isn't at all, just that he's more dependent Ed, who's also dependent on him) among other things, including his goals and even his health. It would be impossible for him to be the same as Al, along with all of the other counterparts, considering all of the different factors that go into someone's personality development.

It's part of what us angst!whores love about it, though. It's a fantasy series but doesn't use that as an excuse to play down the realities of the subjects it covers. From the very beginning we're not even given a guarantee that the main characters will make it through the series alive, and that's just one of the things that makes it so good. It's that realism. Not that the fluffy stories with the happy endings are bad, some of them are really good and a lot of them are just fun. But that's why so many people love the series, I think, because it's just honest about the way things would realistically be; or at least as honest as they can be while still making it an entertaining fantasy series.

Fullmetal Alchemist is a dark story even if some of its fans fail or refuse to see it.

I think you hit it, right there.

You act as though that's not totally retarded.

I'm sorry, I act as if what's not totally retarded? My opinion? If I thought it was a retarded opinion, I wouldn't have it. Obviously.

....Um, no? I meant the movie is completely fucking retarded. Nazification, believe it or not, CARRIES WITH IT A PRETTY HEAVY STIGMA. The thought of a wholly benevolent character like Hughes being turned into a goddamn NAZI, for whatever purpose, is TOTAL HORSESHIT.

Also you guys like totally weren't addressing what she was talking about at all =\

I never claimed the movie was well-written and thought out. There were more plot-holes and inconsistancies... Trust me, I have plenty of problems with the movie, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying it.

What are we failing to address?

How this makes Nazi!Hughes anymore acceptable, which is the whole point of this comment thread.

All the original commenter said was that she didn't like Nazi Hughes, she never asked anyone to defend the reasoning of him being there. And really, I did address that - by saying not everyone was evil, some people were honestly trying to help out and do good. They were also generally the people that left early or were killed by their own group in the long run...

Nazi!Hughes isn't any more random then the sudden desire to make their time a few years different from our's, so that Ed can conveniently be -here- for the start of all that in Germany. Really, if you're looking for logic behind the creation of that movie, and their motives in doing things... You're looking in the wrong place. The fans can't justify every little stupid thing they did for them, if you're going to say, "Why Nazi!Hughes?" can you just as easily say, "Why 1923?" or "Why -this- world, at all?"

She didn't, but then YOU presented faulty reasoning citing one out of a thousand Nazi's naivete which Hughes clearly doesn't have, thus the burden of proof's on you.

Also what the fuck, choosing a setting is NOT the same as converting a, say it again with me, wholly benevolent character to a goddamn NAZI.

Wholly benevolent character...? The two characters are not, never have been, and never will be the same person.

Nazis were humans too, they have faults and personalities just like everyone else. Which I am beginning to think you seriously refuse to acknowledge.

My presented statement was that Alfons was also helping them, yet not nearly as many people complain about that - it's not on me to defend someone else's actions. I had made my point, and said that it might be something to consider - whether she wants to is entirely up to her. I also stated that I'm not trying to start an argument or conflict, but you clearly are.

You can be human and completely fucking evil, JUST SO YOU KNOW. For someone who seems to "understand" the darkness of FMA so well, you sure don't when it comes to real life.

We're not talking about random kids drafted into the military; we're discussing HUGHES, MAES I LOVE MY DAUGHTER AND WIFE HEART HEART HUGHES, as the '23 equivalent of AN SS OFFICER. Okay? Get it? PLEASE get it.

Oh, I understand the darkness of real life pretty fucking well. I also know that real life is not nearly as black and white as you're making this nazi thing out to be. In any situation, even that one.

Also, that person you're describing there. Maes Hughes, married, father, Maes Hughes is still NOT THE SAME PERSON, as the one in the movie. I understand where you're coming from - as I stated in my first comment - I understand the rage that comes with "WTF, WHY IS HUGHES A NAZI? YOU FUCKING IDIOTS." I've always GOTTEN IT. But I still stand by my original statement, that they are not the same person and they clearly didn't make him a bad guy by making him a nazi.

High-ranking Nazis are pretty black and white, sry2say.

I bet you vote for Dennis Kucinich.

Actually, I don't vote.

Your intelligent and mature out-look on the matter is duly noted, however. Since you seem to take your side of the argument so seriously.

If you live stateside, you should vote. Just not for Dennis Kucinich.

I assure you, a realistic view is better than an idealistic one.

Fandom arguments pass time well and give me conversation fodder with my roommate, but surprisingly enough in the end I don't give a shit. Good night, and sorry if I offended you.

a bit late for that now that you've fucking come to goddamned pieces OVER A FUCKING ANIME.

are you always that fractious and unstable or are we just lucky today?

Capslock and bold tags =\= my actual emotion.

Sign?

Actually, I enjoy a good debate - and seeing there's no hard feelings, no offense taken.

Thank you for the explanation, though.

I really don't bear any ill will, honest <3

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[ SECRET POST #244 ]

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