fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2257 ]

[ SECRET POST #2257 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2257 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

#8 and 9 are moving gifs.

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[Jessica Alba]

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11. http://i56.tinypic.com/2ih02df.jpg
[porn... sort of. illustrated]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

13. [SPOILERS for A Song of Ice and Fire]

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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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15. [SPOILERS for Brave, Wreck-It Ralph]

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16. [SPOILERS for Persona 3]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

17. [WARNING for suicide, self harm]

[My Mad Fat Diary]

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18. [WARNING for rape]

[Far Cry 3]

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19. [WARNING for self harm and sexual abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #322.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Disclaimer: everyone's entitled to their opinions. Even you.

lolno, you're the reason I hate this fandom.

We've been handed this luscious new canon to enjoy and play with. Something that isn't pulling punches for the kiddies, something that is well and truly for the adult fans, has decent writing and fantastic art, and gives us a canon Cybertronian romance amidst this whole giant robot war story.

And yet you can't stop bitching. If you were pointing out flaws, that's one thing. None of this is stuff I haven't heard before. There are problems with Transformers IDW, no doubt about it. We should absolutely discuss those problems. But you LOATHE it. You feel personally offended by it.

This leads me to believe that you're a fucking G1er or some odd variant thereof, because I honestly don't know what you'd want in canon Transformers that isn't what IDW is providing now. Seriously, enlighten me. What the hell DO you want?

I would like the femme Autobots back as FEMMES. I would want the characters to be a little more consistent to how they have been in other series, TV and printed. Even though Chromedome/Rewind is a thing, Roberts actually did say in an interview about not exploring it because they are aliens. If he changed his mind, great! I do not like the "any one can die" just because it feels cheap. Yes, people and robots die in situations like these, but look what happened with Torchwood and their "everybody can die (except Gwen)" attitude. Love to the poster who agreed with me about Drift!
Maybe loathe was too strong a word, but I've only come across people who squee about the comics. Yes, it is great that there is a more adult comics line, but I can't help that these things keep me from liking the comics or even considering it very good. I have no power to cancel the comics though, so why are you angry at my opinion?

I wouldn't say I'm angry at YOUR opinion specifically, just at the fact that this fandom is so damn fickle and whiny. I know, I know, that's supposedly every fandom, but still.

See, all the things you hate about IDW Transformers is the stuff I love about it. I don't like the concept of femmes as a natural gender identity in a non-gendered society. Are there problems with how Arcee is portrayed? Yep. But I still love the basis of what they did with "her" character.

I understand exactly why Roberts isn't going to delve more into robot relationships. It's because 1) when you combine Transformers and comics you have the meeting of two stagnant, stubborn groups with a good sprinkling of homophobia, and 2) it's a story predominantly about the social-political struggle of Autobots vs Decepticons. It's a war story, and while relationships are always a big part of war stories, they shouldn't take it over. He's not writing any more "in-depth" about them because there's no place for it in the narrative, not because he's somehow dismissive.

I don't get what you're talking about with the "everyone can die" thing. I hate seeing my favorite characters die. It's enough to make me stop watching/reading something. So for that reason, I'm a little more inclined to compromise on this point than the others. Yeah, the comics are pulling that stupid bullshit of "OOPS SOMEONE'S DEAD! OH WAIT WE WERE JUST KIDDING HAHA!" and it's annoying. But that's not enough to make me hate it.

If they wanted to claim a non-gender society, they should have a) not introduced Arcee at all, at least not as a character that has "gender" issues and/or they should have used gender-neutral pronouns for the bots.

It's not that Roberts is dismissive, but the fact that the comic is in a media where this could be explored (never on TV, bc kiddies watch) and won't be irks me a bit. They could do something really "revolutionary", have an in depth mech/mech relationship that isn't seen as a big deal, but normal. I'm not saying show sex or anything, but I would like the portrayals to have a little more depth. And BOOM I would read it even with all the other complaints I mentioned.

I don't like the "anyone can die" because I come to be fond of certain characters and would read just to follow those characters. If they were to die, I would be out. If something is character driven (again going back to my Torchwood example) and you follow these characters and want to see them grow, then killing them off just seems like bad business to me.
Just my opinions.

Yeah, I don't think we're gonna agree on Arcee at all. But I think we do agree on the "mortality" rate. So that's something I guess?

I'm kinda curious, what would you consider "an in depth mech/mech relationship that isn't seen as a big deal, but normal"? What sort of things do you think would show that here?

I would want to see more pairings and some kind of acknowledgement that they are indeed "more than friends". This could be done through text or just little things like perhaps a pair hugging or something. The reason I'd like to see something more "concrete" is that the fanbois have come up with a bunch of reasons why Chromedome/Rewind isn't a love relationship; for example they say that the Latin term used (Ars something?) could mean any other kind of relationship (best friends, brotherly love) and that it is not 'significant other' in a love sense. If there was text or imagery that could in no way be refuted, I think that would be great.

It's probably NOT significant other in the love sense, as we think of it. But they keep one another alive (...one way a bit more than another), keep each other good people, and rely on each other above all else. Or, as Roberts put it:

A: That’s the beauty of writing about alien civilizations: sometimes, when it comes to relationships, there is no precise human equivalent. That said, I’ve made it clear through the stories – I hope – that Chromedome and Rewind each regard the other as the most important person in their life"

We have it from the horse's mouth. What more do you need?

Fandom is a place where people ship the most ludicrous things, and refuse to acknowledge the existence of canon. They're not in a homosexual relationship because there isn't any homosexual relationship to be had in a species that - as mentioned above - isn't even supposed to have gender. But they are a couple within those constraints and anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves, which is not the canon's fault. It's clearly stated where it stands as of, basically, MTMTE #6 and certainly since #12.

The bots show EVERY OTHER HUMAN EMOTION so why can they not show love? It's not slash since there is no gender, so I can't see homophobes objecting to it. Several women on the official IDW boards have mentioned that a romance element, even if small, would be welcome. Some men agreed as well and all saw it as something that would be a kind of breakthrough in the comics world.

DA

So what you're basically saying is that if it's not physical affection (ie, hugging and such as mentioned above), it's not love and doesn't count?

Man, fuck you. Even if they weren't an alien civilization, even humans still the ability to love someone and convey that ROMANTIC love through non-physical means. You don't need to be hugging or touching to show it.

I'm not debating with you any further since you resorted to insulting me.
My last words on the matter is this:
a) Fanbois will never believe it is love unless it is demonstrative. If the writers want to make it clear, there should be demonstration. I'm not sure when you mean by showing romantic love through non-physical means. Everyone I've ever loved I have touched at one point or another. A hug, a kiss, just holding hands. How could you not want to physical interact with someone you care so much about?
b) If the TF race somehow doesn't show affection through touch, why do they do every other single thing the way humans do? They DRINK and have PSYCHIATRISTS for god's sake. Why the exploration of love is off limits is beyond me.

I'm not debating with you any further since you resorted to insulting me.

Boo-hoo. You offended me with your insulting insinuations about what kind of love is "real" love, so why don't we all just sit like stubborn toddlers in separate corners with our arms crossed refusing to talk to each other.

Fanbois will never believe it is love unless it is demonstrative.

I don't care what fanboys (why you keep spelling it with an i, I can't imagine) think about it, and I don't know why you do either. Like much of any story-telling media, it's interpretive. If they want to be delusional and try to explain it away to themselves as no-homo, they can do what they want. It doesn't impact my enjoyment. It literally has NOTHING to do with me.

How could you not want to physical interact with someone you care so much about?

The only thing holding me back from an explosive fit of frustrated rage right now is the knowledge that you're just ignorant about these things, not purposefully dismissive. So I'm going to tell you to read up on things like touch aversion. Maybe brush up on some asexual experiences. Maybe acknowledge that YOUR definition of "proving" love doesn't match everyone else's. I want to believe you have good intentions here, really I do, but damn you need to back off and think about what you're saying a little harder.

If the TF race somehow doesn't show affection through touch, why do they do every other single thing the way humans do? They DRINK and have PSYCHIATRISTS for god's sake. Why the exploration of love is off limits is beyond me.

One more time, for clarity: Chromedome and Rewind absolutely love each other. The only thing they DIDN'T do is outright use the word, "love". If you wanted to make THAT argument, this would be a much different conversation, but instead you're clinging to some notion that in order to ABSOLUTELY PROVE THEIR ROMANTIC LOVE TO THE READERS they have to be physically affectionate otherwise it doesn't count somehow.

Your analogy is flawed, at best. If they drink and have psychiatrists like humans do (seriously wtf is this argument even) why don't they have human genitals too? How come they all speak one language? Why don't they use a toilet? I can go on.

Obviously too late, but we've actually SEEN them be physically affectionate. They haven't made out. Why would they?

Making out would be extremely awkward for half the population. I mean, look at the head designs. Be impossible. Also consider the size differences. Why would a species have a physical custom for expressing affection that is damn near impossible for half the individuals within that species to engage it. Imagine if, say, a cassette got involved with someone like Dai Atlas or a Prime...

That would be like if the only way for humans to express affection was for both people in the couple to stand back-to-back with all four of their elbows touching.

With regards to Arcee: I agree it's a screwed up situation and Furman is either incredibly twisted or didn't think things through. However, the current writers and EIC have nothing to do with her existence. They can't change that, and Tranformers, for all its various continuities, is not well-known for ret-conning WITHIN a continuity. Roberts doesn't think any other femmebots exist. Barber hasn't weighed in. The most they could have done is killed Arcee off and that would have also caused a shitstorm of wank.

I'm not sure where you're seeing the block with your "mech/mech that doesn't seem a big deal" request. It exists. Chromedome admitted on-page that he was probably going to off himself if Rewind died in twelve (eg: "you saved two lives today"). Nobody on the ship seems particularly surprised or shocked by them. A few comments, yeah, but no more than you'd get with a group anywhere. People don't ignore relationship gay or straight. But nobody has judged them or found them strange. You have EXACTLY what you want, and you're complaining. And that confuses the hell out of me. There's a giant cast on a ship having wacky, crazy adventures and Chromedome/Rewind have received considerable panel time. Giving them more would only serve to derail the plot.

As for deaths: The story wouldn't be as gripping without the very real fear of death. I was a goddam wreck after the preview for 12 came out, my fandom self running frenzied laps around my brain all day until I was able to get to the comic shop. I would cry IRL for a handful of the Lost Light crew, and be legitimately saddened by the death of many. Several others I kind of want to die or be maimed horribly. I CARE about these characters. Deeply. So while the idea that they can die worries me, it also means that Roberts has done something special: Made characters that are genuinely worth caring about. And after that ass Costa and his insistence that nobody can actually understand Cybertronians? I'll take the fear of them dying...

There are things to hate, sure. I pretty much hate every panel of RID right now, tbh. I DON'T like the Arcee thing but I don't see how it's a reason to loathe the entire universal stream when it was something one writer decided on and not a feature of the entire continuity. I would prefer to not see my favorite characters die, but as someone up there said it's a war comic turned social unrest/horror comic. People are going to die. You said you wanted a comic that "wasn't for the kids" in terms of relationships, and you can't cherrypick and say you want relationships but not death. They both exist in reality, even reality of giant robots.

I don't see why people are getting upset because I don't like the comics. Again, I have no power as to whether they continue or not, so let me have my opinion.
Furman did do the whole Arcee thing, but they really need to do *something* to remedy it. If they don't want to retcon, then at least bring in other femme characters. I'm sure they can come up with a way to introduce them.
I'm looking at the bigger picture when referencing Chromedome/Rewind. With them I saw a chance for the writers to say 'yes, these two mechs are the human equivalent of romantically involved, no one around them thinks there is anything out of the ordinary and neither should the readers'. Again, I've read the vitriol from fanbois who ranged from 'they are just friends' to 'ugh I hope Chromedome dies now'. But if the writers don't want to make any kind of social stand via their comics, that is their choice.
I find characters deaths, or even the threat of deaths, to be poor writing. It creates either artificial sadness or anxiety in the reader. Writers should be able to keep a storyline for each character going and not kill them off when either they don't know where to go with the character or they want instant drama.

DAx2

Wait. What. So. You want adult themes, but you don't. I had to be that bitch, but go read fanfiction if you want full outted and explored physical relationships between the robots without the risk of death.

I mean. It's a war. Fundamentally, Transformers was set up around the direct concept of two warring factions (of toys). If no one died, it would just be ridiculous. How is it lazy writing to have the threat of actual death exist during combat? Do you even know what you're saying?

Also, you can have your opinion. But are you also seriously getting angry that anyone is saying things about your opinion when you went through the trouble of making it into a graphic and submitting it to a massive fandom site? If you want to scream your opinion without anyone saying anything to you about it, then scream into an empty cave to make yourself feel great. It sounds more like you only want agreement.

Just FYI, adding in more femmes would also be problematic if they were more created in the same way that Arcee was created. It would still be artificial. They could probably just ignore that the femmes were artificially created for this continuity and go with a more natural approach, but these writers seem to be at least attempting to pay attention to what's been set up. So I doubt that they're going to change anything massively. I find Arcee interesting and can also admit that it's a socially problematic concept.

As to relationships, comics are traditionally pretty progressive, but they have their limits. The censors don't work the same, but I doubt writers are going to all out risk their jobs by writing in a robot make out scene. This is their job. Their job is to sell comics. I'm pretty glad that Roberts actually sees them as individual characters and does give them human inspired reasoning rather than the guy we had before who hated the whole thing. Not to mention the movies. Just having them as close in a relationship the way they are now is slapping the bee hive in a great way, all things considered. And sorry, but the fanboys for Transformers would try to explain away the homo even if Roberts managed to somehow publish an entire porno issue.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2257 ]

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